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Stuck pin battle, I won.

Buickspec6231

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
77
Location
cny
So I had a very leaky stabilizer cylinder on my MF 50H backhoe. I wanted to have it rebuilt before spring so it is good to go when I need it. The tractor is just used on my property and not commercially so time wasn't an issue and we are still buried in snow. The pin on the tractor side (has grease fittings) came out no problem. The foot side of the stabilizer was a different story and now I know why one side of the pin had been mushroomed by the previous owner. It wouldn't budge. I tried my sledge hammer, heat and squelch with PB Blaster, and just heat. There was far too much iron for me torch set up to heat it cherry red though. I ended up needing to cut the pin in three sections, but to do this I needed a bigger grinder for the depth of the cuts. Bought myself a nice little 9" Dewalt grinder. It worked great. Using the BFH and a make shift punch guide out made from some boards I had laying around. I was able swing like a b*****d and drive the stuck pieces out. The "punch" I use is a 1" cylinder rod I pulled out of a scrap bin years ago, works Great. "It only takes one bolt to turn a 20 minute job into a 3 day project."
IMG_20180322_135923655.jpg IMG_20180322_135840238.jpg IMG_20180322_135851039.jpg
 

heymccall

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
5,349
Location
White Oak, Pa
Well,that worked, but...when in that situation with an outrigger, and only one pin comes out, I pull the barrel pin and hoses, and leave the rod and piston attached. The pin holds the rod very well, allowing the piston nut to be removed.
Unless the rod is damaged, that's how I do it.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,445
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
Good job.. they can be a real PITA..
Next time> ditch the PB blaster & make your own penetrating oil.. 50/50> ATF & Acetone..
Puts PB B to shame !!
There was a link I was watching YESTERDAY.. someone did a side-by side comparison w/ several different "solvents".. Torqued a nut/bolt to a specific # & then sprayed dif. solutions on it & measured the amount of force nec. to break it loose..
The "mix" won.. by a huge margin..
 

Buickspec6231

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
77
Location
cny
Good job.. they can be a real PITA..
Next time> ditch the PB blaster & make your own penetrating oil.. 50/50> ATF & Acetone..
Puts PB B to shame !!
There was a link I was watching YESTERDAY.. someone did a side-by side comparison w/ several different "solvents".. Torqued a nut/bolt to a specific # & then sprayed dif. solutions on it & measured the amount of force nec. to break it loose..
The "mix" won.. by a huge margin..

Pump Guy, I'll have to try this. I have plenty of both on hand. I have a gallon of acetone left over from a fiberglass boat repair.

I watched a bunch of videos on the thermal lance. I had no idea such a thing existed. It sure was entertaining to watch them walk the long lances in and send slag flying everywhere. Unfortunately they were outside of my available resources. I'm glad I was able to knock them out. I didn't want to have to try to rebuild the cylinder on the machine, as I've never had one apart before and I am glad I didn't have to take the whole stabilizer arm and cylinder to a shop and pay them to remove the pin however they felt necessary. While the cylinder is off, I'm going to have some new hoses made up and replace what is there too. I plan on replacing a few hoses here and there. The 30 or so year old tractor is starting to bleed a little all over.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,445
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
Around here its common to get hydro hoses built at the parts store.. they're a lot cheaper/less expensive than a hydro shop..
I know for a fact/1st hand that the O'reilys in Charleston does it.. I priced a hose for a buddy & it was 100.00, he took it to Oreilys & it was 24.00 !!!! I couldn't believe it..
1 problem tho, the hose OD was bigger & the hose was stiffer & it was a bit*h to snake around the bucket..
But at a 75.00 savings, it was worth the hassle..
 

Buickspec6231

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
77
Location
cny
I saw the link you were talking about pumpguy. Most of what AvE talks about goes right over my head but he is a great educator on things. Also, I think our local Napa handles hydraulic lines that size. I'm going to stop I there Monday.
 

JD955SC

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,349
Location
The South
Make sure they clean the lines out when they make them. It's a requirement for our hose shop to blow a foam pellet through the hose length once it's cut. You can also buy an assortment of metal caps and plugs on eBay to keep your lines clean while you have a hose off
 

funwithfuel

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
5,518
Location
Will county Illinois
Occupation
Mechanic
Hey, good on you for winning. Now let me be the guy who pees on your parade. Please don't use cylinder rod or any other hardened rod for drift. It could very easily have killed you. Shards of the struck end will come off in unpredictable angles at bullet speeds. You have 3 very vulnerable points below the waist, your junk being one and the femoral arteries in each leg being the others.
Get a piece of mild steel or bronze tape the heck out of the striking end. You gotta take care of you, cuz her the only you, you got.
 

Buickspec6231

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
77
Location
cny
I hadnt been thinking about the frags. After having a Doctor removed a shaving of metal after a grinding found itself around my safety glasses I am usually good with the PPE and double up on eye and ear protections now. Didn't consider the frags basically being bullets with the amount of force applied and some overalls being as useful as a tissue paper. I have an assortment of caps and plugs in hand. When I get into some of the larger hoses, I will definitely check eBay's options.
 

RBMcCloskey

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
399
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Heavy Construction Contractor
Pump Guy, I'll have to try this. I have plenty of both on hand. I have a gallon of acetone left over from a fiberglass boat repair.

I watched a bunch of videos on the thermal lance. I had no idea such a thing existed. It sure was entertaining to watch them walk the long lances in and send slag flying everywhere. Unfortunately they were outside of my available resources. I'm glad I was able to knock them out. I didn't want to have to try to rebuild the cylinder on the machine, as I've never had one apart before and I am glad I didn't have to take the whole stabilizer arm and cylinder to a shop and pay them to remove the pin however they felt necessary. While the cylinder is off, I'm going to have some new hoses made up and replace what is there too. I plan on replacing a few hoses here and there. The 30 or so year old tractor is starting to bleed a little all over.
Take a look at this, a much less expensive option.
https://www.broco-rankin.com/
 

Mother Deuce

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,603
Location
New England
Hey, good on you for winning. Now let me be the guy who pees on your parade. Please don't use cylinder rod or any other hardened rod for drift. It could very easily have killed you. Shards of the struck end will come off in unpredictable angles at bullet speeds. You have 3 very vulnerable points below the waist, your junk being one and the femoral arteries in each leg being the others.
Get a piece of mild steel or bronze tape the heck out of the striking end. You gotta take care of you, cuz her the only you, you got.
Hit a hammer with a hammer once... just once. Almost had to stitch my free left hand index finger closed. About 6 months later the shard worked it's way out. Really good advice!
 

kshansen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,127
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Hey, good on you for winning. Now let me be the guy who pees on your parade. Please don't use cylinder rod or any other hardened rod for drift. It could very easily have killed you. Shards of the struck end will come off in unpredictable angles at bullet speeds. You have 3 very vulnerable points below the waist, your junk being one and the femoral arteries in each leg being the others.
Get a piece of mild steel or bronze tape the heck out of the striking end. You gotta take care of you, cuz her the only you, you got.

Same thing about hitting a bearing with a hammer. My dad found that out the hard way back in the late 1960's. They were working on replacing a bearing in a stone screen at the quarry and not sure if he was swinging the hammer or someone else. Results were a piece of steel in one of his eyes. Did not loose the eye but vision was never the same after that.
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,863
Location
WI
the thermal lance. I had no idea such a thing existed. Unfortunately they were outside of my available resources. .

Black iron pipe is the standard consumable for oxygen lancing. Start it with a cutting torch and it will pierce most anything. Use at your own risk.

For something like a pin, I always thought it would be practical to set up a frame support so the operator is able to stand 45 degrees off the back of the cutting action and pull the lance through without getting near the front or straight back from the action. Extreme protection would still be needed.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
We set up old plywood to block the splatter and blow back from the gas lance, we've also drilled a hole in the plywood at the right height and stick the pipe through that to support it as we blow through the pin.

We've also drilled a hole through the center of the pin before to help relieve the tension of the pin, heat the hole red hot and pound out the pin, but the gas lance is much faster and easier, just put enough welding blankets around the tires to keep them safe, along with he person doing the lancing.

On stabilizer pins, we've also sawed of the pin on both sides of the rod and that way the pin sections are much shorter to deal with and usually easier to get out.

When done, grease is usually the best fix to prevent the issue in the future.

We use a stick welder to get the lance going, we just weld a tab on the pipe and stick the welder stinger to that and after its started, you can kick off the welder stinger.
 

colson04

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,056
Location
Delton, Michigan
Randy,

Any pictures of your gas lance set up? The handle, how the consumable pipe attaches, etc? I would like to add lance setup to our torch kit at the farm w/o breaking the bank on a commercially made kit
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
colson04, no I don't have a picture, but I can explain it to you, its simple and cheap, I took an air blow gun, unscrewed the wand and that's 1/8 inch pipe threads, that's the nozzle you need, then take a small pipe with 1/8 inch threads and make a short piece, a foot long with threads on each end, weld a tab to it wide enough to hook the welder stinger to, that's the gun portion of the unit, then just use a pipe coupler and screw on new ends every time the lance is worn down, nothing special.

I just hook the blow gun quick coupler to the oxygen tank, by unhooking the torch hose and screwing in the short hose I have made up to hook to the regulator, then crank up the regulator pressure and your done and ready to use. I use a simple blown old oxygen hose to use for this purpose, attach a quick coupler to it and quick couple the blow gun to ready to use.

When using it, I hook up the hose and wand to the oxygen tank, hook the welder stinger to the short tab on the blow gun pipe, hook the welder ground clamp to the piece your lancing, turn on the welder, open the oxygen tank and crank up the regulator, the welder will provide the arc to start the oxygen burning and just hold the blow gun trigger to start the oxygen flowing, force the lance into the shaft or whatever your trying to lance out, once the arc is done, you can unhook the welder stinger its no longer needed as long as your feeding the lance into the metal. When the lance is worn down, it will burn down in length as you torch, just unscrew the worn out pipe and screw on a new piece and your ready for next time.

But be warned, the blowback is incredible, so wear welding gloves, long sleeved shirt, leather chaps, work boots and eye protection. I usually wear a welding helmet or cutting torch helmet when I do this job, along with safety glasses and usually put the lance through hole in a sheet of old plywood to help keep the molten slag off you.

We usually do this for larger pins, frozen spindles in housings and things like that, the hardest part is get it to go straight through the piece your working on, but take seconds or at most a minute to blow through a large pin a foot long, so its fast. If this doesn't make sense, ask questions, I'll do my best to explain it better.
 

Heavy Chevy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
341
Location
Suffolk, VA
Good job.. they can be a real PITA..
Next time> ditch the PB blaster & make your own penetrating oil.. 50/50> ATF & Acetone..
Puts PB B to shame !!
There was a link I was watching YESTERDAY.. someone did a side-by side comparison w/ several different "solvents".. Torqued a nut/bolt to a specific # & then sprayed dif. solutions on it & measured the amount of force nec. to break it loose..
The "mix" won.. by a huge margin..
Hello "thepumpguysc" I am working on a seized 2" pin and saw your comment about making the penetrating oil....does it matter the type of ATF? I have been using PB blaster but heard there was much better stuff out there....I'm gonna make this and try before I have to make me a thermal lance that I just learned about. r/, Heavy Chevy
 

Heavy Chevy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
341
Location
Suffolk, VA
colson04, no I don't have a picture, but I can explain it to you, its simple and cheap, I took an air blow gun, unscrewed the wand and that's 1/8 inch pipe threads, that's the nozzle you need, then take a small pipe with 1/8 inch threads and make a short piece, a foot long with threads on each end, weld a tab to it wide enough to hook the welder stinger to, that's the gun portion of the unit, then just use a pipe coupler and screw on new ends every time the lance is worn down, nothing special.

I just hook the blow gun quick coupler to the oxygen tank, by unhooking the torch hose and screwing in the short hose I have made up to hook to the regulator, then crank up the regulator pressure and your done and ready to use. I use a simple blown old oxygen hose to use for this purpose, attach a quick coupler to it and quick couple the blow gun to ready to use.

When using it, I hook up the hose and wand to the oxygen tank, hook the welder stinger to the short tab on the blow gun pipe, hook the welder ground clamp to the piece your lancing, turn on the welder, open the oxygen tank and crank up the regulator, the welder will provide the arc to start the oxygen burning and just hold the blow gun trigger to start the oxygen flowing, force the lance into the shaft or whatever your trying to lance out, once the arc is done, you can unhook the welder stinger its no longer needed as long as your feeding the lance into the metal. When the lance is worn down, it will burn down in length as you torch, just unscrew the worn out pipe and screw on a new piece and your ready for next time.

But be warned, the blowback is incredible, so wear welding gloves, long sleeved shirt, leather chaps, work boots and eye protection. I usually wear a welding helmet or cutting torch helmet when I do this job, along with safety glasses and usually put the lance through hole in a sheet of old plywood to help keep the molten slag off you.

We usually do this for larger pins, frozen spindles in housings and things like that, the hardest part is get it to go straight through the piece your working on, but take seconds or at most a minute to blow through a large pin a foot long, so its fast. If this doesn't make sense, ask questions, I'll do my best to explain it better.
 

Heavy Chevy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
341
Location
Suffolk, VA
Randy88,
I'm going to try making this thermal lance you described as this is the first time I have ever heard of it...watched a few Youtube videos on it and now think I can make it based on your description. If I understand correctly, I need to find a air gun nozzle and be able to attach my oxygen hose to one end and 1/8" threaded steel pipe to the other end for the lancing.
 
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