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Stranded with leaking swing motor.

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by Marksan, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    Hello All,

    l got a problem with my 200 series Kobelco.lts an older machine 1988,no longer used regularly, around 13000 hrs, looked after. The machine has been inactive work wise for about a year,ive started it every couple of months or so.

    The main ('Pinion seal' is it called'?)seal on the swing motor is blown. lts leaking almost as fast as i can pour oil in the swing motor (capacity approx 1.5gallons 80-90).

    My problem is that its waaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the bush, i have 6-8 or so hours of light-medium work,and tracking (not necessarily all at once) to get it to a point where my tame fitter can get to it. So im thinking about pumping some decent grease into the swing motor to give the planetary gears etc some lubrication.

    So my question is am i going to do more damage than good by pumping grease into the swing motor instead of the 80-90.

    Any bush mechanic input/ideas greatly appreciated , anyone had a similar experience and had to come up with something. its a good old clunker, with plenty of "farm"life left in it, i dont want to destroy it.

    lts already had a bottle of lucas Hub oil, no joy.

    Cheers Marksan
     
  2. Chris5500

    Chris5500 Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
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    Are you sure it's the spline seal on the slew motor that’s leaking and not the pinion oil seal on the slew gearbox?

    I'm thinking you mean the pinion oil seal at the bottom of the slew gearbox since it uses 80w-90 and the spline uses 15w-40.

    If it is the pinion oil seal then make sure your slew ring grease is still adhering to the teeth on the slew ring and slew pinion. If it's not then you'll need to degrease it to remove the 80w-90 residue so the grease can bond once again.

    And to answer your question about using grease - yes, you will do more damage than good. Chances are if you pump grease into the gearbox it won’t penetrate the planetary’s and will have insufficient lubricating properties.
     
  3. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    So, what would you do to get the machine out
     
  4. Chris5500

    Chris5500 Well-Known Member

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    Do you need to slew the machine to get it where your mechanic can repair it?
     
  5. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    ok, i guess i didnt make myself very clear.

    1, the machine has been used to make bush road.

    2 landslide has closed machine off,

    3,Need to track 2km and work for 6-8 hrs to get to a trail head.

    4, forget getting anyone to the machine, period

    5 forget getting another machine to it.


    l just want to know if putting grease in the swing motor is worse than nothing at all. This isnt a fix, this isnt the usual way, this is damage prevetion with very limited options
     
  6. excavator

    excavator Senior Member

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    What likely happened was when it sat that long the seal stuck to the shaft and ripped when you first swung the machine. I would try something like double 00 grease. It's quite heavy but can still be pumped with a grease pump. Depending on how bad the seal is, check the level every so often when running. I recently replaced the swing drive seal on a Hitachi that had been setting, the owner started and ran it in cold weather and he ripped the entire seal out of it's housing. If you are running it yourself and care about the machine it should be OK. don't work the swing any harder than you need and remember it's a patch job and anything could go wrong.
     
  7. TD-5

    TD-5 Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at #0 Corn head grease, It was originally intended to lubricate the gearboxes on cornhead harvesters, but has found uses in many other areas. It is a lighter flowable grease that might just give you enough lubrication in your swing reduction box to get you out of your pickle & get the machine back to civilization.
     
  8. daman

    daman Well-Known Member

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  9. Willis Bushogin

    Willis Bushogin Senior Member

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    leak

    I would go to a dealer that sells all kinds of Lucas products and see what they have. I use Lucas for a bunch of things, Im sure the Lucas engine oil additive would work good. It is a a thick oil and you can pour it and it should be thick enough to stay in the gearbox, until you can get where you are going, just be easy on the swing. See if Lucas has a website and call them.
     
  10. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    Hello Excavator...................well i think you nailed it! replaced the swing motor seal around a year or so ago, i used the machine for around 60 hrs in a week and it was fine, its only done a few hours here and there since. Damm damm damm i had a feeling it froze and tore, when i was using it regulary it worked in -15 all the time, i havent started it that cold, i guess it was still to cold though! lt would have to be somthing like that to cause the oil to pour through it so fast.
    l own this machine and even though its old its well looked after and has plenty of life left in it. lve been all over it and its showing the typical signs of the seal gone, grease coming out, contamiated bath, its the only part of the upper machine that uses that oil, cannot mistake the smell.
    Thanks.

    Willis

    lm a big fan of lucas, before posting here i was thinking that the lucas grease would perhaps stick better than the oil, the seal is so shot that the oil doesnt stem the flow and work its majic like on worn seals ( as it did towards the end of the last seals life)

    Thanks.

    TDS & DAMAN

    Thanks for that on the corn head grease. never come accross it, im going into the store with the Lucas tomorrow, where they have amsoil and shiny things, and the seal around $300 it will be painfull experiance.........and play helper to the man with the large socket set, large torque wrench and more importantly the hoist on the truck!

    DAMAN al la Vmax4.com, TY etc etc?

    ...a picture of the previous offending artical
     

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  11. daman

    daman Well-Known Member

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    10-4 :drinkup hey

    wow $300 for that seal..
     
  12. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    Lol, DAMAN you are a gent with broad mechanical love! lve seen you around a few other sites as well.

    l wish i could find a place to get it cheaper, its actually a Kawasaki pump, l remember doing alot of phoning and emailing, it was as cheap as i could find it at the time,open to suggestions though!
     
  13. daman

    daman Well-Known Member

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    Yep get around they got a lap top at work now so look out,haha

    any way good luck hope some one jumps in with that seal location cheaper we had to replace some in our drives on the Gehl skid steer last week hunted all over ended up getting it in the ars at the dealer. :mad:
     
  14. MR. KOBELCO

    MR. KOBELCO Resigned

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    from canada eh,
    a common happening.
    **** i hope you have also changed the o-ring which is located behind the bearing sleeve on the main pinion for this can also cause the swing gear oil to leak out as well.
    any time we do the shaft seal we also press the bearing off and change this.
    alot of our customers are unaware that the center slew sump requires draining off at least once a year of any water, rain water, melted snow, etc... that has collected over time. on older machines such as yours a pond bulids, and in the cold months freezes.
    when swinging the machine the ice breaks inside grabbing the seal and tearing it out.
    future notes;
    - the center slew drain plate is underneath at the rear, rectangular plate with a gasket.
    remove and tip machine to allow to drain
    - the center can collect your gear oil from a leaking swing gear reduction or also hyd oil from a leaking swivel rotary joint assy.
    - the top side of the machine near the battery box has an oval inspection plate to where you add by hand the grease for the slewing gear.
    this grease is an EP2 moly - grease that prevent dilution from water washout.
    the slew gear requires grease once a year
    - the outer turntable grease fitting is strctly for the swing bearing, EP2 grease,
    takes one shot by a hand grease gun at 4 points, by turning 90 degrees, to be done every 500 hours no sooner rather later. customers of ours grease this once - twice a year. do not over grease for not only will you pop out the swing bearing " dust " seal but with any bearing over greasing is way worse than under greasing!
    - the travel reductions and swing reduction calls for 80W-90
    recommended change interval is 1,000 hours. check oil levels at least once a week.
     
  15. MR. KOBELCO

    MR. KOBELCO Resigned

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    one more, than bed...
    i find alot of our owner operators are also unaware of the dual function of the swing gear reduction oil level dipstick...
    if you remove the dipstick and look at it closely you will see on the stem two holes, these are channeled thru the stem and connect to the loop which you grab unto to pull out when checking the oil level on your daily circle checks.
    this is the air breather for the gearbox. you need to ensure that the channel is clear and not plugged. for when the gear reduction builds in operating temperature the pressure in the gearbox will climb and if not allowed to vent it will push any colected sand/dust sediment into the seal and even push the gear oil past the seal.
    also, look at the end where the level hatch markings are.
    this end is crimped tight and seamed. if bubbled it will split at the end and act as a syphon draining down the oil level and making a mess around the tube.
    if this happens have it replaced.
     
  16. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks for the info Mr K,
    When i got the machine i sprung for the full set of manuals for it. lts a worth while investment. l cannot remember about the o ring, the fitter took that part away to check and fit seal.
    l got the seal from Pacific tractor last time i think, they were real quick good service. ls there anywhere cheaper to get a seal from? MD200BLC

    cheerrs
     
  17. MR. KOBELCO

    MR. KOBELCO Resigned

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    if you are not aware,...
    a MDI/Yutani is a Kobelco.
    any kobelco dealer would be your support for this machine.
    you can have them quote you parts for your machine or any manuals.
    i could be that contact for you.
    i am the acting Parts & Service Mgr at a full product-line kobelco excavator dealership.
    we are located in Ontario, Canada
    we carry good stock.
    in most cases we can get next day.
    we also make referrals.
    as if we are not going to be competitively priced we will refer you to make contact with an aftermarket vendor directly. it is not always about a one-time parts sale but more about building relationships.

    http://www.robertgreenequipment.com/co_page.htm
     
  18. Marksan

    Marksan Well-Known Member

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    Yep i know what my machine is. l brought the service manuals though you guys, last one of second print apparently, dire quailty pictures, considering the cost, but what can you do.
    We are not going to get any proper rain for a bit, the drier it gets the easier it will be to get the machine out.
    Thanks for all the input guys, i will get back to you and let you know how the band aid worked.
     
  19. nowing75

    nowing75 Senior Member

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    I would not bother with Lucas. That stuff is snake oil if you talk to someone that has lab tested it.
     
  20. swampdog

    swampdog Senior Member

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    Mr Kobelco or anyone else: Can you tell me if other excavators also have that drain for the center slew area? Specifically, does a Hitachi EX270LC have a drain that is easy to open?

    In the past, I have cleaned out that area the hard way - through the access hole in the battery box. It's amazing how much water, leaking hydraulic fluid, and grease accumulates in there. I just cleaned this out a few days ago after not doing so for a year. A small container on the end of a stick works to bucket it out a few ounces at a time. Or a suction tube thing also works. But a drain hole would make it a lot easier.