Snow Blower on a CAT 420D?

[HandLogger]

It's been a while, but I'm back on the HEF doing some research. I'd like to know if anyone has any productive thoughts on the possibility of mounting a quick coupler plate (of some kind) to the front of our 2002 CAT 420D. Obviously, the "IT" editions of this machine addressed this issue very well, but we invested in our machine before we were aware of this advance and, quite frankly, our low-hour machine is still earning its keep fairly well. Regardless, we can't afford a new Class 100 TLB, so the next best thing is to modify our machine somehow.

As our CAT 420D has an old-style pin-on 3-in-1 "clamshell" bucket on it, I'm hoping that the extra hydraulic function presently used to close the loader bucket will help in some way? Regardless, there are presently zero auxiliary hydraulic couplers running to the front of the machine, so adding them is expected for a modification of this kind.

The goal, in short, is to be able to quickly attach a snow blower to the front of the 420D for obvious reasons ... so, if we had the right type of attachment coupler pinned to the loader arms of our machine, we're hoping that we may be able to avail ourselves to certain attachments that are intended for compacts loaders and such.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Tags]

The coupler won’t really be a problem, just find the style you want, make the purchase, mount it on the loader, then purchase the correct adapter plate to weld on to your existing Bucket after you cut the mounting ears off. It’s good you have auxiliary hydraulics already, adding the quick couplers to the front auxiliary hydraulic lines wouldn’t be a big deal, but I’m not sure your machine has the ability to run continuous flow to the front auxiliary hydraulics, if it doesn’t, it will cause a tremendous amount of heat to your hydraulic system I believe. Also, if the auxiliary hydraulics don’t have the ability to “lock on” you will have to hold a button or lever with your hand, or you will have to change the auxiliary valve so it has a detent position. I imagine if you posted your serial number for the machine, somebody else with a lot more knowledge than me will chime in and tell you what your machine is capable of doing or not doing with auxiliary hydraulics.

 

[John C.]

The pin on style couplers like they use on wheel loaders would probably be adaptable to you machine. I think I've seen loader backhoes with them before. Do a search for backhoe quick coupler and you should be able to find it. Just remember is you install it for the snow blower you will have to put adapters on you loader bucket as well. One thing to keep in mind is that you are not going to have enough oil flow to run a snow blower on the circuit installed on the machine.

 

[HandLogger]

Tags......First, thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts -- I really appreciate it. The identifying portion of our serial number -- that we provide when we're ordering any kind of parts -- is FDP08627. I understand what you're thinking about as it pertains to the continuous actuation of the front hydraulics. At present, an aux lever is pushed forward to open the clamshell jaw on the loader bucket and pulled back to close it ... but, am I correct in thinking that the flow must be continuous? I'm thinking this because I've grabbed some pretty heavy logs and have let go of the lever after clamping down. In short, the jaw on the 3-in-1 loader bucket does a pretty good job holding these logs for as long as it takes to move them; hence, my guess that the hydraulic flow must be continuous? By the way, I've never set up any auxiliary hydraulic functions, so I'm by no means a hydraulic expert ... and, for that matter, I've never used any quick-attach implements, either, so this is all new to me. Once again, any productive thoughts in this regard would be most greatly appreciated.

 

[Canadian_digger]

https://skidpro.com/2012/11/backhoe-snow-blower/

Good info here.

 

[HandLogger]

John......I've done quite a bit of searching using many different variations of the phrase you suggested and, usually, I end up finding a coupler for the hoe section of our machine. As for your thoughts about a lack of necessary hydraulic oil flow for a snowblower, is there a way to increase the amount of flow to the front of the loader section? Thanks for your time.

 

[HandLogger]

Canadian Digger......Yes, I found the same information recently and it doesn't exactly look promising (according to Skid Pro Attachments). That's one of the reasons I wanted to ask if anyone has figured out a work around for this. By the way, our machine does have a very low gear ratio when in 1st -- and there is a hand operated throttle we use when pushing snow around -- but my interpretation of the article you linked us to is that you really need to be creeping to achieve maximum hydraulic flow (43.1 gallons per minute). Once again, the article is none too promising in this regard.

 

[John C.]

The only way to increase flow is to get a bigger pump. I have seen a snow blower that had a motor and pump installed as part of the snow blower. I don't recall any particulars like brand and I think it was installed on a wheel loader.

Maybe use the term wheel loader quick coupler.

 

[Canadian_digger]

Canadian Digger......Yes, I found the same information recently and it doesn't exactly look promising (according to Skid Pro Attachments). That's one of the reasons I wanted to ask if anyone has figured out a work around for this. By the way, our machine does have a very low gear ratio when in 1st -- and there is a hand operated throttle we use when pushing snow around -- but my interpretation of the article you linked us to is that you really need to be creeping to achieve maximum hydraulic flow (43.1 gallons per minute). Once again, the article is none too promising in this regard.

I'm no expert but I don't think you will have 43gpm to the front aux hydraulics. I think it would be more around the 20gpm range as 43gpm is the total machine flow. I could be wrong. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

 

[Delmer]

my interpretation of the article you linked us to is that you really need to be creeping to achieve maximum hydraulic flow.

that was a good article, but a little off on the details. the engine needs to be at full speed to achieve full hydraulic flow, pretty simple. the problem is that backhoes generally are NOT hydrostatic, they're a torque converter which is much better for a loader operation, but hydrostatic is much better for creeping at full throttle. 1st gear/full throttle on any backhoe I've been on would be fine for snowblowing MOST of the time, but when you get that big snowfall, then taking a 1' slice is going to seem kinda silly, and if you can't break through without going back and forth to gain one foot at a time then a long driveway will take forever.

There are snowblowers mounted on wheel loaders all the time, they just have a separate engine on the blower, that's what I'd do if this was going to NEED to work. The hydraulics for your bucket can operate the chute, you need a bigger hose with full flow for a snowblower, or a different engine.

 

[HandLogger]

As we still haven't come up with a good solution to this issue, we're now considering purchasing an engine-driven snowblower -- like a Bercomac Vantage unit -- and [somehow] mounting it to the inside of our factory CAT 420D loader bucket ... which would be one possible solution to our problem.

Regardless, I'd still like to know if anyone has a suggestion on where one might purchase a pin-on quick tach adapter system of some sort that might replace our factory loader bucket. If we could start with something like that, we could always fabricate a plate to weld onto an engine-driven snowblower. Obviously, this would eliminate the need for mounting the snowblower to the inside of the loader bucket, as inquired about in the first paragraph, but this essentially constitutes a second [possible] solution ... and one that I think would work better than the solution proposed in paragraph 1.

I really hope that I didn't confuse things. Thank you for your time.

 

[Tags]

Here you go...

https://www.acs-coupler.com/wheel-loader-couplers/jrb-416-418-and-420-compatible-coupler

 

[Welder Dave]

There are a few manufacturers of commercial snowblowers that have adapted them for AG tractors. They either have a larger pump and larger hyd. reservoir or a complete separate hyd. system with a large engine and hyd. reservoir. I think the only way to run a decent blower on a backhoe is to have one with it's own engine. As was stated in the article posted, you need the right transmission. Hydrostatic would be best. I can see a big commercial blower needing 43 GPM. Bigger skid steer blowers need high flow hyd's. well over 20 GPM. You'll want a high flow blower on a backhoe or it will be too slow. Click on high flow in the link below. 84" and 96" models of skid steer blowers can use up to 42 GPM and a backhoe doesn't have hydrostatic drive so you would need all the power you can get from a hyd. blower.

https://www.casece.com/northamerica/en-ca/attachments/snow-blowers

 

[HandLogger]

Tags..... After reading the link you provided in your last post very carefully, I contacted the company directly. Long story short, they weren't able to help me. Apparently, the "420 compatible coupler" is made for an entirely different machine -- a Deere 420 Agricultural Loader, I believe. Anyway, I asked the person I spoke with to ask their engineers about anything that might be used with a CAT 420D and, once again, there's nothing that they know of that could possibly help us.

Welder Dave..... Very nice link. Yes, it looks like the CASE attachments require quite a bit of hydraulic flow.

 

[Welder Dave]

I saw some other blowers than can use 50 GPM. The Case was a better link to post.

 

[heymccall]

If you Caterpillar is an "IT" with a front coupler, blanks are available from Caterpillar and the aftermarket.
Like these

 

[Tags]

Sorry about that....this is better....

http://amiattachments.com/attachments.php?link=loader_backhoe-front_end-couplers

 

[old-iron-habit]

The only way to increase flow is to get a bigger pump. I have seen a snow blower that had a motor and pump installed as part of the snow blower. I don't recall any particulars like brand and I think it was installed on a wheel loader.

Maybe use the term wheel loader quick coupler.

Snow blowers for front end loaders used to be fairly common and cheap around here. And they worked great. Most had Detroit power units mounted on them with a roller chain or multiple belts driving the blower. The chute turning was the only thing running of the axillary loader hydraulic circuit. Unfortunately many had the engines repurposed and most hit the scrapyards when the scrap prices were up. I have been watching for one to come up for sale reasonably for a few years now.

 

[Delmer]

What did they replace them with OIH? They're still fairly common around here, both in use and at auction. Even with cummins or deere engines, not exactly common, but they're they show up now and then. Or are you just saying that the glut is gone, and the newer ones are more money?

 

[old-iron-habit]

They used to set all over the place. Never see them anymore. The last one I have seen had a 4-53 on it and was not worn at all but had sat unused for 20 plus years. It was on a IRAY auction a couple years ago. The drive chains were rusted stiff and it was un-started but no wear to speak of. The motor was loose. I was very interested but never even got a bid in. Four different guys jumped in and it sold north of $12,000. I have checked at a few places where I had seen them setting long before I had my loader. I also checked a few places where friends told me there was one setting. They had all been scrapped and were long gone. Still looking, maybe some day I'll find a reasonable priced one. One would just be a toy for me to play with. The City of Cloquet still has a huge one. They use it for loading trucks during street snow removal. Just plow to the center of the street and load along side. It works good.