Small track loader vs CTL over all cost

[Cat E70b]

I was wondering if anyone had done a cost comparison on a small track loder like 455g John deere to a large CTL ? ctl's seem to get less hours out of undercarriage components and drive moters. I would love to hear your thoughts .

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Cat E70b. I have often wondered that myself.

I have no experience in the seat of either machine but I have hired both CTL's and a small track loader on several occasions and although the applications do overlap the machines and how they are operated are like chalk and cheese.

I think if some of the cowboys on the CTL's would slow down a bit, think, and make the machine work instead of buzzing around hither and yon around like a bloody blowfly component life could be improved.

In comparison the track loader can appear ponderous but I found that it got the job done with a minimum of fuss and I am yet to be convinced that a fifty or eighty horsepower engine screaming at full revs all day is the most effective way to move a bit of dirt.

Cheers.

 

[JNB]

If all I was doing with my CTL was moving dirt, I would for sure be trading it for a small track loader yesterday.

 

[CM1995]

If all I was doing with my CTL was moving dirt, I would for sure be trading it for a small track loader yesterday.

I agree both machines have their place, that's why there's a 953 and a T250 in my mix.

Here is a break down of my O&O costs from another thread - https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?27942-A-few-projects-I-have-done-recently/page5

I have been harping on the true costs of CTL's in relation to the undercarriage per hour true cost.

Case in point -

Had to buy a rubber track a week or so ago for the T250, $1100. 2 rear rollers $300 each.

My Cat PSR quoted new pads and bolts/nuts for the D5G. $2700.

If I were to replace both tracks on the T250 would be $2200. $2700 to replace the pads and hardware on the D5G, $500 difference. No other undercarriage components are included on either machine. Now this doesn't take into consideration the track chains on the D5 as a new rubber track includes it's "chain".

However, look at the difference in hours one gets between the two. A rubber track will last (hopefully - I have seen these numbers in the past) 500-600 hours, although I have had very bad luck with rubber tracks over the last 3 years, going through 7 on the T250. No change in the operating environment or the types of jobs it does. The problem we have been having is breaking the cords, where the T-bone starts to bulge and creates a knot on the outside of the track. When this happens, just run it to failure as the track is toast.

$2200 for two tracks for the T250 and assume 500 hours, that's $4.40 per hour. It's been a while since I could get 500 hours out of a track but I have in the past. In reality, went through 7 tracks on the T250 in 500 hours. Now 2 of those tracks were old and worn so they can be taken out of the equation for an accurate comparison. That still leaves 5 tracks in 500 hours at a cost of $1100 a piece, $5500 total cost and $11 per hour of operation just for tracks.

I had the undercarriage measured by the PSR on the D5 a couple of weeks ago. Most worn component was the left track side at 62%, that's at 4400 hours.

For the sake of comparison, let's say the D5 gets another 2000 hours out of the total undercarriage before the most worn component the chains, need to be replaced. Estimates to replace the entire UC on the D5 is in the $15000 range. That's roughly $2.35 per hour - $15K/6400 hours. Now the pads on the D5 need to be replaced at the moment so add another $2700 to $15k for a total of $17,700, as this cost needs to be accounted for and assuming the pads replaced now would be worn out at 6400 hours - the $15k includes pads at the time of total replacement. That would bring the hourly operating cost to $2.77 per hour.

Now I have replaced the pads twice on this machine already and I don't remember the actual cost but let's assume it was $2700 each time. That's an additional $5400. Add the $5400 to the $17,700 which is $23,100 divide by 6400 hours - $3.61 per hour.

Neither cost comparison includes labor to R&R, it's materials only. So in closing my actual costs for undercarriage between the two machines so far is $4 an hour for the D5 and $11 for the T250. This is still not an accurate comparison as I didn't include the other components of the undercarriage on the T250 that will need to be replaced some time in the future but gives one an idea of the true costs of a CTL. If we can achieve historical numbers on the life of a CTL track (500 hours and not this machine) then the operating costs between the D5 and T250 are comparable, however the past 3 years have proved otherwise.

I just want to let people know of the true costs involved in running a CTL. I love the T250 and goes to almost every job, as it's handy as a shirt pocket but one has to analyze the true operating costs of every piece of iron you own.

In my experience the CTL will cost more undercarriage wise per hour but it uses less fuel and is less expensive to purchase than a D5 for example. Buying a new CTL compared to a new D5K, the purchase price is double the CTL, ad another $60K for a new 953D so there are parameters when comparing what the machine costs to run UC wise to purchase price and what it will do - IE make money.

In a nut shell, CTL's are handy little machines and have their place just be aware of what it costs to operate them.

 

[DMiller]

My old Allis is junk and I know it but it dug the hole for our house and has been awesome when not throwing a track in doing grade work on the farm. Three years and all I have purchased is hydraulic hoses, filters and oil, and a second junker as a source for spare parts, grand total around the $14,000 mark, a CTL around here, worn slick and needing more work to make it functional for long periods of grade work is near to $24,000 and I would have more than $35,000 spent in getting it up to speed and use. I did the numbers long ago and those made my mind up on the worn slick Track Loader I now own and cuss at while working ever harder to keep moving!

Fuel consumption is obviously going to be more for a 26,000# machine than a 8-12,000# unit but not that much more, I see considerable use on the Allis but still used less than 150 gallon digging the foundation hole and back filling.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

I agree with CM on the hourly costs, and have similar comparisons in my fleet.

I find that the 287 Cat I have runs a higher hourly cost for the running gear than my D-6R. It is all about hours, and the D-6R, in my conditions, will make right around 5,000 hrs on the U/C, while the total replacement cost is about $28,000, with tax and labor included. That makes for hourly U/C cost of $5.60

The 287, without going into detail, is about like CM's Bobcat, at around $11 per hour. Recently it has been higher, because I pushed my rollers and idlers past the breaking point, and ruined the aftermarket tracks in about 400 hours. That was a very profitable 400 hours though, working in rock, and largely in shot rock, climbing hills and slopes as steep as 2:1, and doing most of the work packing a grossly oversized bucket that packs nearly as much as my 928 Cat loader. I also spend time in deep mud, brush, demo, scrap yard work, and packed about 200 stack and stagger blocks 2 at a time to complete one project.
I have in the past gotten anywhere from 800 to 1200 hours on tracks, and with upgraded idlers and OEM tracks, hope to get back there, if the jobs are not too hard.


Looking purely at that, no one would buy a CTL/MTL, but you have to look at the usefulness of the machine, and what it does.
My 287 is good on fuel, at least for me, since most of my iron is bigger, I have no comparable reference. The other costs of the machine are minimal, and the things it will do that no other machine can, all while in a package that can be moved with a good pick up, make it something I never want to do without.

With the rubber tracks, I can cross curbs, streets, sidewalks, delicate driveways, and not do damage, where a trackloader, even a small one would not be able to go due to damage of the property.
I can load an end dump in 10 minutes, where a small to mid sized track loader might do it in 3, but I can also put on forks and unload a palletized load of block from a 48 ft trailer in 10 minutes, and I doubt you could do that with a trackloader. Then I can put on an augur, set posts, grapple out brush, pour concrete, jockey trailers around in the yard, and about 10,000 other things that would be completely foreign to a trackloader.
If there is serious dirt to move, big clearing to do, or big demo jobs, the trackloader will make the CTL look bad, but for one machine to do it all, I would take a CTL any day, even with the higher track costs.

 

[Randy88]

It depends on what your doing with both machines, a track loader will always be less per hour to run for repair costs for an undercarriage, rubber track loaders have their place, I won't deny that at all, but unless you absolutely have to have one, go with steel tracks every time.

Operating conditions and operator have far more impact on costs per hour for anything rubber tracked, steel is far more forgiving to a point.

If you have a choice, go with steel undercarriage on a track loader every chance you get, if you absolutely have to have rubber, be prepared to pay the piper sooner than later seems to be consensus of opinion in my area. My personally you couldn't give me a rubber tracked loader.