Slow to Cable Down

[RocketScott]

I have a Tulsa winch on a Terex TC2863 that's mounted to a Peterbilt. The truck is an '89 but the crane was installed around 2000 I'm guessing. I've owned it for 10 years. I used to frame houses and worked it regularly. I'm semi retired now and don't use it as much

A while ago the winch would only lower very slowly, even in high speed. Not long after it stopped lowering completely and when the lever was pushed oil came out of the vent on the brake

Today I took the brake apart and cleaned it out. The seals for the clutch piston looked ok so I put it back together. It's gone back to working without spitting oil out the vent but still really slow

I took the counterbalance valve out and it looked fine on the outside. I understand those are set at the factory and I shouldn't take it apart. Not much to do other than clean it off. The metering hole looked clean

If I cable up (by pulling the lever towards me) and then push the lever away to lower it's not a smooth transition. There's resistance to get past center. After that I can return the lever to center (no cable movement) and then push the lever away to lower and there's no resistance

Any thoughts on what might be the cause?

I have a service manual for a 1200w Tulsa winch. It's not exactly the same as what I have but its really close. Older pics of the winch for ID:

 

[funwithfuel]

I'm guessing, you're losing brake oil into the gearbox. So, when you winch down, some of the oil is tapped off the B port to unlock the brake, the same in winch up but tapping off the A port. I suspect either you're leaking internally to the gearbox or bypassing the check ball in the brake release fitting. It's been forever since I played with one. That crimped hose on top there looks a little 'iffy' I think I would check it end to end with air. Make sure there's no flapper inside. Looking at your pics, is it a commercial sheering motor with a Fairfield brake?

 

[RocketScott]

I don't think there's a path for the oil to fill the gearbox. It would have to fill the brake and push past the center shaft seal. It would come out the vent before that happens

It has a roller clutch so the brake only releases on cable down. With the brake discs removed I could rotate the center shaft by hand either way and it would turn the drum, slowly but there didn't feel like there was anything wrong in the gearbox

This is the winch motor:
Commercial Intertech
PT. NO._313-9710-229

I don't know who made the gearbox and brake. Not sure how much Tulsa Winch farmed out or if Terex pieced that together

It's on my list to replace all the hoses and those mangled hard lines on top. The truck itself has been getting most of the attention for the past few years

 

[funwithfuel]

So, if you look at your diagrams, you have oil coming off the counterbalance in up or down feeding the brake. In your first post, I thought you stated oil was coming from the breather. Since you have oil from the counterbalance controlling the brake, i would gauge that oil pressure in both directions.

 

[RocketScott]

Oil was coming from the breather in the brake housing until I took it apart, cleaned everything, and put it back together. Oil only came out on cable down, the brake only gets high pressure to release during cable down. There's a roller clutch around the dark purple shaft in the diagram above. Around that is a gear. Around that are the clutch discs

I'll need to dig around and find a gauge and a tee. Most of my shop stuff is still in boxes from the move

 

[funwithfuel]

I see where i made the mistake now. Weird that a mechanical multi-disc brake would only release in one direction.

 

[crane operator]

You still have to make pressure in the brake chamber to release the brake to come down. Like FWF, that's usually where the problem is, and then it dumps oil into the gearbox.

You said you feel resistance at the handle to cable down, maybe you have a problem in the spool on the control lever, and its sticking and not going into full flow for down?

You can call tulsa winch, they are still in business and have helped me in the past.

 

[RocketScott]

The resistance is only the first time going from cable up to cable down. Almost like it catches on something in the spool. Once it goes it's fine going between cable down and neutral. It's a two speed winch valve and both speeds *work*. I can hear the solenoid click and the speed change. It just goes from slow to slower

Fortunately the spool is seperate from the rest of the valve stack. There are a couple easy parts to take off and check so I think I'll start there tomorrow

I've called Tulsa Winch about other parts before and they were super helpful. I'll call them if I can't find a problem with the spool

 

[RocketScott]

Got the winch spool valve off today

Looks like it's Husco 6000 series. I found a catalog online to reference

Might have found the problem, or at least a problem. Crusty rusty centering spring. That's going to limit the lever throw

While I have it out I'm going to tear it all down and replace the seals. The spool looks great so here's hoping that everything else is good

 

[RocketScott]

Just a quick update. Got it all apart and cleaned up. Everything besides the centering spring looks fine

Took a bit of searching but found the current Cat part numbers for the spring, seats, bolt, and seals. The spring was the only thing I couldn't find online, will go to the dealer tomorrow to ge that. It's a $9 part that probably should be $4 but overall this is a pretty cheap fix, less than $40. Just hoping this will fix the winch speed

 

[RocketScott]

Got the valve back on the truck today. Sucked, but it's done. I'm still nursing a broken leg, non weight bearing for another week on the left. There was lots of hopping...

So the crusty spring was the problem. Couldn't get full travel on the spool valve with that rusted up. With that fixed it's back up to speed. The winch gearbox and brake were due for an oil change so I got that done too. Going to try and change the rotate gearbox oil this weekend

Dumping my notes here. Maybe it helps someone else, or you guys can laugh at me for doing this much homework:

Husco catalogs for the 6000 series are available online but I couldn't find any place to order parts with those numbers. In stead I found some serial numbers for Cat equipment on 'for sale' sites to use on the Cat parts website. I'm sure lots of machines use the same valve but the IT18F is where I found it first. The entire end mechanism is Husco D10-200. I could not find a cross for that so here are individual parts:

Husco#, Description, Cat#
3324, Cap, 005-8141
3329B, Spring, 6E-5375
3327, Spring Seat, 005-8144
3328, Screw, 005-8145
3326, Sealplate, 005-8143
571, O-ring, N/A
4137, Wiper, 0329805
1343, Section O-ring, 2H-4145 (replaced with 175-7898)

59998, "Zero Leak" Wiper, 6E-2573
54282, "Zero Leak" Seal, 6E-2572

There has been an update to what they call "Zero Leak" seals on the spool. The old style consists of a Husco 571 o-ring with the 4137 wiper. The 571 oring is dash #210, Buna-N, 70 durometer. The new style part #s are listed above. They are considerably more expensive, Cat wants $60 for both. Find It Parts had them for $19. I put those on the top of the spool and used the old style oring and wiper on the bottom

Old style in back, new in front. Seal on the right, Wiper on the left:

The other change is the spring seat (Husco 3327/Cat 005-8144). Find It Parts only had one of them available so I ordered the other from the dealer. The one on the left came from Find It Parts and is NOS (old bag with all the info on it), on the right is a newer stamped part from the Cat dealer (no packaging). Both do what they're supposed to, although the dealer charged almost twice as much for the stamped part

 

[skyking1]

thanks for the follow up.

 

[POWER CRANES]

Sir, the problem was with the HUSCO 6000 because I have the same problem, the winch does not go up or down but with the quick release by pressing the lever button it works. Was the problem in the valve?

 

[RocketScott]

Yes, replacing the rusted centering spring allowed the valve to work properly. There weren't any issues with the valve internally

You may be able to take the cup off the bottom to inspect the spring without removing the entire valve like I did

 

[POWER CRANES]

Thank you very much for your help. I'll work on this today, thanks.