Slippin Daytons

[JD8875]

Picked up a new to me dump truck a few weeks ago, a 91 International 4900 with a 466 , 5/2 split and juice brakes. It was a junkyard dog with some obvious front end damage. Got that fixed and the bed needed new rails as they had been ate up from salt. Got that fixed and took it to its first job. Loaded with dirt and headed for dump site. Hit a soft spot and had to back up. When I let the clutch out the truck lugged a little let out a loud boom from the rear end and wouldn't pull itself. I figured I broke and axle shaft. Pulled both shafts and they are fine. Noticed the Dayton spoke hub had slipped inside the wheel. Believe the pop was the hub jumping past the lugs in the inside of the wheel. I'm inexperienced with Dayton wheels so my question is what's the fix/repair for this?

Thanks
John

 

[willie59]

First think to check is make sure it has the correct rim clips, there are different size clips. Also, depending on wheel/hub used, they used two different width spacer rings in between the wheels, a 3 3/8" and a 4". Check the position of the clips when you have the clip nuts tight. If they're correct the clip should be pretty much straight up and down, vertical. If the clip is at a bit of an angle, not vertical when the nuts are tight there's something wrong. The small t!t on the inside of the clip should be touching the face of the hub and the clip should be vertical when tight.

 

[John C.]

I think we used to call those California wheels or spoked wheels. They are a pain but people used to say they were lighter and easier to work with. You can't use a tire gun on them when installing. Most I have dealt with were five spoke. At any rate the trick to get them to hold after you have checked the things Willie59 stated is to make sure they are sitting even on the wheel and that the nuts are all torqued evenly in a star pattern. The final secret is they don't hold torque as the wheels take a seat when they turn with weight on them. Torque them when you install them and then drive them a mile or so and torque them again. Check torque again the next day and you should be good.

 

[JD8875]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm guessing I need to jack up rear wheel, loosen clips and nuts, turn wheel back to whwre the nubs are on the wheel and then torque the nuts back down a few times??? Was hoping it would be a fix rather than a replace parts kind of repair.

Thanks
John

 

[grandpa]

If the spacer is proper and it still won't hold check the flange on the casting the inside wheel sits on, it could be worn or bent over from running loose.

 

[Truck Shop]

One safety item not mentioned here was when removing Dayton wheels never completely remove the nuts holding the clips or wedges in place.
Back the nuts off about four turns and rap the wedges or clips with a hammer to take the tension off first. This usually is a problem when there
is rust built up on rim, clips and studs.

Truck Shop

 

[Shimmy1]

When you spun the hub, how did it not tear off the valve stems?? You might have gotten lucky, but I'd still bet they're bent over. When you go to re-torque it, have a big hammer handy. After you have the wheels lightly snugged up, place the hammer head on the ground about a half inch from the outside tire. Preferably, the hammer would be big enough to reach the middle of the sidewall. Spin the wheel and watch the distance between the hammer and tire. If the wheels are way off, you might have to loosen things up and start over. If you don't start straight, it's nearly impossible to get them straight after a few turns on the nuts.

 

[trucker1]

Shimmy1 has a good explanation, check out the videos on youtube, got to installing Dayton wheels and there are lots. check out quite a few to get a good idea.

George

 

[walkerv]

I never had much problem getting duals to run true if you tighten them even as you go ,steers on the other hand I have had to turn the rim before to a different spot and do over to get them to run true. all I ever used to tighten them with was a good 1/2 inch air impact, I cant recall ever having one slip on me but you really have to know what your looking at as far as spacers and wedges go , some wedges are never supposed to touch the spoke on the backside of the wedge while others are designed to come in contact with the spoke so you kinda have to know what style of wedge you have and then you can determine if the spacer is correct . I used to take care of a fleet of dayton equiped trailers and even sometimes when you mix older rims with newer rims it would require a spacer change at times , Im not sure if it was the age of the rims or the brands of them we had at least 30 spacers of different sizes at all times hanging on a rack

 

[Junkyard]

While you have them off take a look at the "wheel" or hub whatever you choose call it and make sure the tabs that the inside dual ride against aren't fubar'd. Even just one that's a little chewed up has given me grief with keeping things right. Another safety note, is you have to weld/cut or apply heat to the tabs on the rim that guard the valve stem, please please please let all the air out of the tire. You'd be surprised what a little heat can do to add pressure...... Are they tubeless tires? If not then there's the good ole lock rings to worry about also. Being a 91 it should be tubeless but who knows that's been changed over the years.

Junkyard

 

[87silvert]

I don't think it is possible to spin the wheel so bad that the truck won't move without other obvious issues such as major wobble and broken vave stems. Obviously if they are moving that needs to be addressed but you may find you have issues in the rear like a broken axle or gear set.
Also, you should have bumps or welded tabs on the rims that keep the spoke from contacting the valve stem.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

A heads up here fellers . . . .

Another safety note, is you have to weld/cut or apply heat to the tabs on the rim that guard the valve stem, please please please let all the air out of the tire

I guess a lot of folks have got away with this but any welding on a rim with a tyre installed--even a tubed tyre--can lead to a chemical reaction that can cause a catastrophic explosion up to several hours later.

Deflating the tyre and removing the valve core is insuffient, the tyre should be dismounted.

I saw this occur on the Fairbairn dam job in the early seventies after nightshift did some welding on a 621 wheel. It blew just coming up to daylight
and we could never work out what had happened . . . it was years later before I read about it somewhere.

I think there may be an old thread on here and there would be lots of references on the net if you do a Google search.

This is a very real and present danger as evidenced by some of the video I have seen. Take care.

Cheers.

 

[JD8875]

Valve stem was a little bent but no catastrophic damage. Once I got the clips loose and the wheel off for examination it appears someone before me just threw it in and snugged the nut on the clips without truly tightening them or ever checking them again. Wheel showed the hub had turned at least one full revolution. Only damage was the bras valve stem had a couple scrapes on it but nothing terrible. Remounted the wheel and used the sledge hammer trick to seat it straight. Trucks drives great now.

Thanks again for all the help guys
John.

 

[Steve Frazier]

When I changed tires at the construction company I worked for the mechanic taught me a trick for tightening spoked wheels: Put a 6x6 block with the end facing the tire and use it as a gauge while rotating the tire. The gap between the tire and block should remain constant throughout the rotation, tighten the wedge opposite the larger gap to true the wheel.

We carried a lug wrench on every truck and part of our morning checkout was to tighten the lug nuts.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Gotcha Steve Frazier. I thought I had a post on this thread where I mentioned (in my opinion) torqueing (Daytons as you folks call them) pretty much is nonsense.

Standard practice here was to stand the four pound hammer right by the tyre for a reference and tighten it to run true.

On gravel roads and bush tracks there was always too much dust and rust and friction to make any precision torqueing pointless . . . torque wrenches have their applications but tightening Daytons and dozer track plates are sure not on my list.

Daytons (or "spider wheels" as we called them) were the only type of wheel I knew and it seems to me that its a simple "five or six nuts to get a pair of wheels off system" compared to what I see today.

Looking after your wheels and keeping them tight and changing tyres and fixing punctures and knowing how to tarp and lash a load and tie a decent knot used to be part of the job description of a "truck driver".

As others have said the main thing with Dayton's is to tighten them true, check them after ten miles or so, then again at about fifty and then every morning and any chance you get.

Cheers.