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Section for komatsu d20,21 and similar grey market dozers
- Thread starter rangerfreak
- Start date
kc5gxc
Well-Known Member
Hi Steve
Thanks for the upgrade.
If anyone needs any book info on the D21, I got the books.
Pete
Thanks for the upgrade.
If anyone needs any book info on the D21, I got the books.
Pete
wdnewman
Active Member
Getting ready to purchase. Any advice?
After a few months of checking around, I think I have narrowed my dozer of choice down to either the D20 or D21 Komatsu. As a newbie, many, many questions remain:
1. Is the D20 transmission stronger and more reliable than the D21?
2. Have you owners found the Japanese Komatsu grey market dozers to be well maintained off the boat?
3. Is there any one major problem on this dozer to be careful of?
4. When purchased should I renew all fluids and filters automatically, or go by the hour meter?
5. What would be a good loaded mile charge to transport the dozer to my home?
6. Is the price of $14,000 to $18,000 too high for this dozer in the 2,000 hour range?
I have about 130 acres in central Mississippi and the dozer would be used for light grading off of old terraces and small tree and brush clearing. I have looked at two JD450B's but both were junk with smoking exhaust and 0% track time left.
Thanks for the help.
WD
After a few months of checking around, I think I have narrowed my dozer of choice down to either the D20 or D21 Komatsu. As a newbie, many, many questions remain:
1. Is the D20 transmission stronger and more reliable than the D21?
2. Have you owners found the Japanese Komatsu grey market dozers to be well maintained off the boat?
3. Is there any one major problem on this dozer to be careful of?
4. When purchased should I renew all fluids and filters automatically, or go by the hour meter?
5. What would be a good loaded mile charge to transport the dozer to my home?
6. Is the price of $14,000 to $18,000 too high for this dozer in the 2,000 hour range?
I have about 130 acres in central Mississippi and the dozer would be used for light grading off of old terraces and small tree and brush clearing. I have looked at two JD450B's but both were junk with smoking exhaust and 0% track time left.
Thanks for the help.
WD
D20 observations...
I'm really new to this and am, by NO means, any sort of expert. Here's what I've found out in my research:
I wouldn't buy a 'D21' ...it's too easy to abuse that shuttleshift tranny and expensive to fix when it breaks.
Look for rust..my '20 has a lot of rust around the radiator and the deck plate is rusted to the point that I'm probably going to have to weld on a backing plate. The belly pan has a rust hole too.
The '-5' is pre 1989 (I think). I have heard that they are more difficult to get repair parts for.
I don't know if I would trust the hour meter. My hour meter is broken (or disconnected) and shows 2190 hrs. The PO thought that it had about 3000hrs on it.
If possible, I'd do an engine oil analysis before purchase. I did on mine and I know that there's no bearing metal or coolant in the lube oil.
Overall, mine is in pretty good shape — 60-70% undercarriage, fairly new sprockets, the pads have had grouser bars welded onto them and the hood and other covers aren't beat-up. I paid $13,800 for it too...and, best of all, I found it only 45 miles from the farm. The PO hauled it to me for the cost of fuel.
Some good stuff in this thread about the little Komatsus
I'm really new to this and am, by NO means, any sort of expert. Here's what I've found out in my research:
I wouldn't buy a 'D21' ...it's too easy to abuse that shuttleshift tranny and expensive to fix when it breaks.
Look for rust..my '20 has a lot of rust around the radiator and the deck plate is rusted to the point that I'm probably going to have to weld on a backing plate. The belly pan has a rust hole too.
The '-5' is pre 1989 (I think). I have heard that they are more difficult to get repair parts for.
I don't know if I would trust the hour meter. My hour meter is broken (or disconnected) and shows 2190 hrs. The PO thought that it had about 3000hrs on it.
If possible, I'd do an engine oil analysis before purchase. I did on mine and I know that there's no bearing metal or coolant in the lube oil.
Overall, mine is in pretty good shape — 60-70% undercarriage, fairly new sprockets, the pads have had grouser bars welded onto them and the hood and other covers aren't beat-up. I paid $13,800 for it too...and, best of all, I found it only 45 miles from the farm. The PO hauled it to me for the cost of fuel.
Some good stuff in this thread about the little Komatsus
Countryboy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,276
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
First off, Welcome to HEF wdnewman! :drinkup
The only thing I can comment on is the one I quoted. I would change all fluids, filters and such after purchase. While changing the fluids, take some samples and have them sent off to the lab. This can tell you any unseen issues with the internals of the components.
If you can, get some samples before purchase. This can give you a heads up of problems, and could ultimately tell you if the machine has problems already. If the results show multiple issues then you might need to keep looking.
wdnewman
Active Member
Thanks for the quick get-back!
Thanks for the insight guys! I have already decided to stay away from the re-painted units, and to try to stay near the 2000 hour mark, but as noted, you can't always trust the hour meters. There is a Mitsubishi (sp?) BD2F for sale nearby, an early 70's model, but the hour meter only shows 1,100 hours! (Yeah, right!). But checking on the web, it looks like the Mitsu parts are few and far between, so that dozer is not an option.
The oil check is a good idea, but the units I am checking on are some distance away and I may have to wait after purchase to get that deep into the dozer. It WILL be done though, either before or after purchase. I WILL check for rust, as a lot of those Japanese units are worked near sea water.
FOPS with sweeps is a requirement of mine also, but will probably have to be done later. That will be a subject of a later post.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the insight guys! I have already decided to stay away from the re-painted units, and to try to stay near the 2000 hour mark, but as noted, you can't always trust the hour meters. There is a Mitsubishi (sp?) BD2F for sale nearby, an early 70's model, but the hour meter only shows 1,100 hours! (Yeah, right!). But checking on the web, it looks like the Mitsu parts are few and far between, so that dozer is not an option.
The oil check is a good idea, but the units I am checking on are some distance away and I may have to wait after purchase to get that deep into the dozer. It WILL be done though, either before or after purchase. I WILL check for rust, as a lot of those Japanese units are worked near sea water.
FOPS with sweeps is a requirement of mine also, but will probably have to be done later. That will be a subject of a later post.
Thanks again.
machineman
Active Member
Also consider what type of tracks you need. Lots of them come with swamp tracks which are great for soft dirt and mud but not so good on rocks. For $14K to $18K you should be able to get a decent -7 model with <4000hrs. The -7E models are 12V systems which are nice for jumping and finding cheap off the shelf lights and accessories.
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wdnewman
Active Member
Ah yes, the tracks!
I meant to bring that up too. Although the local conditions vary between packed clay and soft mush, we don't have any rock to contend with. However I did hear that the standard tracks on the 20A are much easier on the undercarriage which I don't know to be a fact, but it seems to make sense. I would like whichever type has the best push to it. Any suggestions? And thanks for that information about the -7E model. I didn't know about the 12 volt for that series, and that would sure be a plus.
I meant to bring that up too. Although the local conditions vary between packed clay and soft mush, we don't have any rock to contend with. However I did hear that the standard tracks on the 20A are much easier on the undercarriage which I don't know to be a fact, but it seems to make sense. I would like whichever type has the best push to it. Any suggestions? And thanks for that information about the -7E model. I didn't know about the 12 volt for that series, and that would sure be a plus.
rangerfreak
Well-Known Member
dip stick question
when i get done on my dozer the oil level is at low i checked it the following morning and it was at full, im guessing that this was because there was still oil in the rockers when i shut is down.
to get to my point i added oil after i turned it off (fearing running out of oil) until it said full,next morning i checked i the oil again and it was past the High mark covering the letters on the dipstip that said engine stoped. is this ok
when i get done on my dozer the oil level is at low i checked it the following morning and it was at full, im guessing that this was because there was still oil in the rockers when i shut is down.
to get to my point i added oil after i turned it off (fearing running out of oil) until it said full,next morning i checked i the oil again and it was past the High mark covering the letters on the dipstip that said engine stoped. is this ok
rangerfreak
Well-Known Member
Yes. I'd say if you check it cold on level ground and the oil level is above the top mark on the dipstick, it is overfilled.
RonG
Charter Member
For what it is worth,I wore out an undercarriage on a D-21 and the machine was NO trouble during that time,sprockets so smooth it would not back up a hill and there was no sign of any transmission issues that I could see.We ran it a few years after that with no problems either.Ron G
wdnewman
Active Member
D21 Transmission
Ron,
I would imagine the problems attributed to the D-21 tranny could possibly be mis-use by people like me who don't know what they are doing. The old opinion that manual transmissions are stronger than automatics (and truly they once were) could be behind the belief that the D-20 has the better transmission. Just a guess here, but I think a possibility. Anybody else had experience in this area?
:beatsme
WD
Ron,
I would imagine the problems attributed to the D-21 tranny could possibly be mis-use by people like me who don't know what they are doing. The old opinion that manual transmissions are stronger than automatics (and truly they once were) could be behind the belief that the D-20 has the better transmission. Just a guess here, but I think a possibility. Anybody else had experience in this area?
:beatsme
WD
That could very well be the case.
All the information I accumulated was purely anecotal and was from people that had manual machines. I based my decision to stick with a manual purely on the guess that a shuttleshift had the potential for having received more abuse than a manual.
wdnewman
Active Member
Me too...
Leo,
Thats exactly how I reached my decision to go with the D20. There seems to be no price advantage one over the other, so I went with what I heard around the barracks, so to speak. (The standard is stronger, easier and cheaper to repair, etc. etc.) There are a LOT of D21 dozers out there, and if I am correct, big K isn't offering the standard transmission any more at all.
WD
Leo,
Thats exactly how I reached my decision to go with the D20. There seems to be no price advantage one over the other, so I went with what I heard around the barracks, so to speak. (The standard is stronger, easier and cheaper to repair, etc. etc.) There are a LOT of D21 dozers out there, and if I am correct, big K isn't offering the standard transmission any more at all.
WD
Orchard Ex
Super Moderator
The powershift may have a little more to "go wrong", but it's easy to abuse the manual transmission. It has no "syncro's" (probably wrong term, but you understand what I mean) so you have to slip the clutch to get the gears to line up. If you aren't patient or are having a bad day it's like being in a coffeehouse with all the grinding. Not that I ever grind a gear on mine. 
Also, if you are running it for more than a day or 2 at a time the power shift is really nice.
Also, if you are running it for more than a day or 2 at a time the power shift is really nice.
RonG
Charter Member
Just as an example to get the thinking pointed in the right direction,back in the fifties when the horsepower race began Chrysler who was the leader in the field at the time with the Hemi quickly concluded that an automatic with the torque converter and oil cushioned gear train produced less shock loading and therefore less breakage coupled with the torque multiplication combined to make a bettter,more reliable product.These days with electronic control it would be difficult to damage the driveline because of all the safeguards built in.There are exceptions to every rule but I would choose an auto every time for reliability,especially with an inexperienced operator.Ron G
kc5gxc
Well-Known Member
I've got the D21 and sure like it. Use the inching pedal like a clutch to keep it smooth and not shock load it. It had 5,143 hrs on it when I got it and was used by contractors for grading homesites, etc....
I can tell you it ain't got any trans slippage like a torque converter does. It goes rite now, and will stall the engine down if you get it against an inmovable thing.
I took the hr meter out to make room for an oil press gauge....cold it's at 75 psi and hot it's at around 40-35. Also put in a temp gauge .... need a voltmeter now but a meter for a 24 V system is hard to find....anyway....ain't got another hole for it...ha. Never used a dozer before and find that this thing is the roughest riding machine I have ever been on. It will shake you apart. Tractor is bad, dozer is worse. I think the pyramid tracks may make it worse...is this the case? I can sure tell it gets smooth when I get into a soft area. Also, I am happy with fuel usage...seems to sip it.
thanks
Pete in MS
I can tell you it ain't got any trans slippage like a torque converter does. It goes rite now, and will stall the engine down if you get it against an inmovable thing.
I took the hr meter out to make room for an oil press gauge....cold it's at 75 psi and hot it's at around 40-35. Also put in a temp gauge .... need a voltmeter now but a meter for a 24 V system is hard to find....anyway....ain't got another hole for it...ha. Never used a dozer before and find that this thing is the roughest riding machine I have ever been on. It will shake you apart. Tractor is bad, dozer is worse. I think the pyramid tracks may make it worse...is this the case? I can sure tell it gets smooth when I get into a soft area. Also, I am happy with fuel usage...seems to sip it.
thanks
Pete in MS
wdnewman
Active Member
Lots to think about.
Well,
You guys sure give me a lot to think about. It appears that either tranny is OK. I probably will decide on the best dozer on other factors like undercarriage and engine hours and just take whichever transmission it has. Pete, I'll bet that the pyramid tracks ARE rougher than the standard grousers, but the two JD450's I checked out had the standard tracks and would shake your fillings loose. I thought it might just be the antique nature of these old machines, but it might turn out to be a normal dozer thing. I live in central MS, with soil much like you have, so I can expect about the same performance as you get. Do you have much slippage with the pyramids when pushing small trees and brush, are or they OK?
WD
Well,
You guys sure give me a lot to think about. It appears that either tranny is OK. I probably will decide on the best dozer on other factors like undercarriage and engine hours and just take whichever transmission it has. Pete, I'll bet that the pyramid tracks ARE rougher than the standard grousers, but the two JD450's I checked out had the standard tracks and would shake your fillings loose. I thought it might just be the antique nature of these old machines, but it might turn out to be a normal dozer thing. I live in central MS, with soil much like you have, so I can expect about the same performance as you get. Do you have much slippage with the pyramids when pushing small trees and brush, are or they OK?
WD