S630 vs S650

[phil314]

I've been looking at getting an S650. An S630 just came up for sale locally. They look like virtually the same machine except the S650 is vertical boom and the S630 radial boom. But looking at the specs, the S650 seems to rated much higher than the S630. This seems odd since the machine for the most part are so similar.

What am I missing here or are the specs somehow just misleading? Anyone run both, is the S650 just a better all round machine? I'll probably use it mostly for dirt work and plowing snow, so I'm guessing the S630 would work just fine, but for some reason I want a S650.

 

[Bumpsteer]

Vertical lift machines have a higher lift capacity at the expense of more pivot points (to get slopped out) in the boom linkage than the radial machines. They will reach out further than a radial machine for loading into trucks.

IMO, if you don't need the benefits, don't buy it, there are to many people that buy into the vertical machines that really don't need the benefit it provides.

For what you are doing, I would think the S630 would be the better machine.

Ed

 

[KSSS]

Also the sight lines tend to be better in a radial machine so grading in tight places is easier. The saying goes if you spend most of your time with the bucket from ground level to the top of cab, go with a radial. Truck loading with a radial machine can be irritating with the reduced lift height and not enough reach to hit the center of the truck, which can force you to load from both sides so it is all about application.

 

[monster76]

For dirt work i prefer a radial machine because of the better visibility. If i were loading trucks all day or landscaping and moving trees id much rather have a vertical lift. All in all if i cant have both id own a vertical lift machine because the added lifting capacity height and reach for loading trucks comes in handy when you do need it and it will do everything the radial machine does to just some thing not as comfortably but it will get the job done

 

[warbird]

imo i think the vertical lift will hold its value better and you always want more reach. i just picked up a new 650 im pleased with it

 

[movindirt]

I haven't ever ran a vertical lift machine, but I have spent a lot of time on radial lift machines grading and loading trucks, while I can't compare them I can say that loading trucks with a radial isn't that difficult, if your loading a tandem all you gotta do is get it most of the way full and then when you go to dump out your next bucket while its full push the pile over the the other side of the truck, then dump your bucket. It takes a little bit of practice, but after a few loads you'll get used to "feeling" where the load is at in the truck. But like I said, I haven't ever loaded a truck with a vertical lift, so maybe I am missing out on something great :beatsme

 

[phil314]

lots of good points.

I'm still a little baffled by the fact the S650 has a tip rating that's 1000lbs more. That still seems strange given the 2 machines are almost identical other than lift. The radial machine is definitely cheaper, but I'm a little concerned with resale later because everyone seem to want vertical lift instead.

 

[warbird]

590 will do same thing or close. better resale as 630 imo and cheaper. 650 different machine

 

[Reedo]

We had run vertical machines until we got our 09' s630. I loved that machine, we don't do a lot of work with the boom high above the cab anyway. Recently got a s650 due to higher capacities and did not like it as much for our applications as much. We mainly use it for loading and unloading pallets from flatbeds and pickups, grading, grappling brush and trees, snow removal, and loading ton and half dump bed trucks. If we were loading dump trucks or trucks with higher sides I would go 650 all the way but it can still be done with the 630.

 

[durallymax]

lots of good points.

I'm still a little baffled by the fact the S650 has a tip rating that's 1000lbs more. That still seems strange given the 2 machines are almost identical other than lift. The radial machine is definitely cheaper, but I'm a little concerned with resale later because everyone seem to want vertical lift instead.

It's due to the boom path of a radial versus a vertical. Radial machines lift in an arc (hence the name radial), the higher you lift the further out the load is until the halfway point or so which is perfect for unloading flatbeds, then above that the boom comes back and thats why at max lift they have very little reach for loading trucks. A vertical lift machine lifts vertically, the load may come slightly forward at the start but after that its basically in a straight line all the way up. This keeps the load closer to the machine which is why they have higher capacities. This design has more pivots and more stress on the boom which is why the booms are so much heavier sometimes. The added pivots and supports cause visibility issues to an extent. It's manageable, but the view out of a radial machine is nice.

 

[CRAFT]

Phil 314 : …. For the reasons that you give, for purpose of uses …… I've been Only running a Vertical lift for the past 18 yrs …. My current is an '07 Bcat A-300 …. with a current hr meter reading of just over 4000 hrs on the clock …… As one member suggested, extra pin wear ??? , NOT an Issue !!! …. Mine is still as tight as ever

For your Snow removal a Vertical Lift machine Will out perform the Radial lift In ONE major area, and that is stacking/piling Snow … your reach is maintained to be able to stack more Snow with WAY Less Spill back from the pile, and as others have said for loading trucks the vertical will load with less effort reducing your turn around cycle times …. once you become used to your new machine, visibility and sight lines become second nature, I Have Never found it to be a Handicap, also as the newer Bcats have a more cab forward positioning increasing your visibility ……. In MY Opinion it's "Vertical Lift All the Way" …………

Haha, maybe if you are considering a new Bcat machine, you should Seriously look at the A-770 as well …. the benefits are endless, beginning with extreme extended Tire life, and if you are a Snow removal Contractor as I am, We have to run Chains on all four corners there is NEVER Asphalt damage due to the chains scrapping as you are spinning on the spot …. Landscaping you are finishing off and the last pass with an all wheel steer, You NEVER Auger up the ground as with the the standard Skid-steer …. the List for me goes on and on …….. Cheers …. GK

 

[Swannny]

If you think about what Craft is saying regarding pin wear...makes sense. Radial lifts typically have 12 zerks to grease on boom and bucket (not including the two quick attach pins), while some vertical lifts can have twice that amount. So the stresses are distributed, therefore less potential wear. My experience with some vertical lift designs are that they tend to be easier to twist/rack while putting stresses on a corner/ outer edges of a bucket.

 

[phil314]

The difference in boom path makes sense. I'm guessing then that tip load must be measured at half lift or something.

There is a fully loaded S770 for sale nearby that caught my eye. But this is for personal use and anything bigger than a S650 really would be overkill. But I keep asking myself - can you ever really buy too big of a skid loader?

 

[Todd v.]

I have been comparing those two also, and have a demo on an S630 and Cat 262D this coming Wednesday. I got one radial and one vertical lift machine so I can compare but for what I do I think the radial will be my choice. The reach at mid lift will be a bonus making brush piles and pushing over trees I think. I did ask one of the techs at the Bobcat dealer about wear and stress on the vertical lift machines and he said it's really a non issue, just more grease fittings. he said the only time he's done a repair was when someone tweaked one with a side impact. The cat dealer did have a used vertical lift machine that needed a new boom because it was tweaked, can't remember what model it was.

 

[Reedo]

We have owned a s630 since 2009 and got a s650 last November. There is really nothing one machine can do that the other machine can't. One may do something faster or reach a tad bit higher or further. I had both machines at our shop today for the first time side by side and did a few comparisons as we are looking at another unit now. We traded the 630 on the 650 and leased it through the winter. With the same set of pallet forks on both machines at truck bed height the forks extended about 5 inches further on the 630. I also checked reach with the forks extended at the top of the cab and only noticed a couple inches difference. I didn't measure but got out and eyed things up and the difference was minimal. For handling anything from the ground to the top of the cab I have found the radial is a tad nicer but at the expense of lift capacity. I was surprised at the little difference between the two at those heights.

 

[DirtCrawler]

For your Snow removal a Vertical Lift machine Will out perform the Radial lift In ONE major area, and that is stacking/piling Snow … your reach is maintained to be able to stack more Snow with WAY Less Spill back from the pile, and as others have said for loading trucks the vertical will load with less effort reducing your turn around cycle times …. once you become used to your new machine, visibility and sight lines become second nature, I Have Never found it to be a Handicap, also as the newer Bcats have a more cab forward positioning increasing your visibility ……. In MY Opinion it's "Vertical Lift All the Way" …………

Wouldn't a Radial lift be better though at pushing into a pile of snow?
It just would seem to me, if at mid lift the bucket is farther away from the cab with a radial lift, then as your approaching (pushing) into the pile and your raising the bucket/pusher thereby pushing back into the pile. ??? and your skid is farther away from that pile at mid lift. ?
But I suppose as that pile gets taller, then vertical lift would be better at getting the snow stacked up higher however your skid is going to be right on top of your pile?

 

[CRAFT]

Wouldn't a Radial lift be better though at pushing into a pile of snow?
It just would seem to me, if at mid lift the bucket is farther away from the cab with a radial lift, then as your approaching (pushing) into the pile and your raising the bucket/pusher thereby pushing back into the pile. ??? and your skid is farther away from that pile at mid lift. ?
But I suppose as that pile gets taller, then vertical lift would be better at getting the snow stacked up higher however your skid is going to be right on top of your pile?

In My Opinion No! ….not as far as pushing into a pile goes, they should be the same ….. but once contact to a pile is made and you begin to lift, the radius lift will stay approx the same distance until maybe the top of the door …. but once past that point it starts to pull the attachment back shortening up the reach …. Whereas the Vertical lift remains the same thru its entire lift path.

And I was referring to Piling up snow as high as you can make them to reduce the space needed to store/stock pile it, Not just pushing into it and having major spill over the top of the Blade as it would with a Pick-up and blade ……

To prove it to your self just take a Radius lift machine up to a vertical wall, where the bucket barely touches the wall and begin your lift path (trying to maintain a level bucket) … and watch what happens against the wall (if it was true as you suggested the bucket would touch mid-stream) ….. If you took the Same machine in a vertical lift path it will remain fairly constant against that wall throughout the entire lift.

To each his own, but I Have taken my Vertical lift path machines and pushed piles back that were made by others with radius lift machines.