Roughest 580ck ain't moving!

[packratc]

No I didn't use sealer. I had last time and I scraped it off and used a new gasket this time. I'm thinking that I'm going to drain all the fluid. Measure the amount I put in there, & then run it. Then I'll drain the bell housing and see how much comes out. If it's more than a gallon I'd say that too much is up there. But I really don't know how much should be in there. Then I guess I can split the tractor about 1/2 inch and apply the sealer. Then close it up and hope for the best. Any other suggestions, I'm looking foward to hearing them. Thanks,, Packratc

 

[51kw]

Any updates?

 

[packratc]

Thanks for asking, 5kw. I just couldn't bring myself to split it again since it was shifting so well until I tried everything I could to stop the leaks. I talked to the guys at the dealership again & asked around. Got the advice to try to seal it with weatherstripping sealant by 3M. This is the black stuff in tubes used to hold rubber stripping to door jams. I removed the mount that the radius rods pivot on and dropped the pan. Coated it all with dobbing of it in the corners. Put it back together. Forgot that I had only drained the bell housing so I over filled it with about 2 gallons. Meanwhile I returned the starter to the rebuilder and he put in the two seals for a wet bell housing. Stopped the leaks except for the lowest starter bolt and maybe a couple of the rear oil pan bolts. I put tefon tape on the starter bolt. Just have a slight drip now. Today we tried to put the hoe back on it but ran out of time. I decided I wouldn't know if the shuttle was fixed or not until I ran the hoe and moved dirt with the bucket and all. Will get back to it in a couple of days. I'm probably dreaming but maybe the dripping will quit when it leaks down to normal level. I hope it takes months. packratc

 

[51kw]

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted and keep your chin up!

 

[packratc]

Well, the hoe is back on & we've dug a couple of days. Still leaking around the starter & maybe the rear oil pan bolts. Ordered starter gasket & will put it on this week. Still think that the torque tube is way over full. Take the dipstick out while it's' running & fluid goes everywhere. Checks several inches above the mark. fluid is so clear it's hard to see. Motor oil is the same clearness. Hoe is leaking everywhere. I'll get them one at a time. I put the 2 ft bucket on it and it digs easily & with plenty of power full of wet soil & mud. Have not out floorboard on the right so the foot pedal is not in place. I'm lacking another spring on one barke pedal & they need to be readjusted so the clutch will go in with brake application. Chic has habit of using clutch all the time. Shuttle works good except Friday it began not going into reverse quickly. Had more & more hesitation & the required reving up of engine. It kicks in & pushes well. Think I need to check all adjustments on brakes, clutch, & accelerator. For the first time the engine over heated. Go up to 250 degrees. Let it set & idle & it came back down. It had kicked out some water so I replenished it with 1/2 gal. antifreeze. Am somewhat confused about operating temperature of shuttle fluid. When hot you can't hold on to the dipstick to check fluid level. Can almost hold your hand on the radiator & lines to cooler but the fluid itself is pretty hot. I'm wondering if I should change the shuttle filter again. Remember I've had this thing apart 3 times. Ran it in & out of pond for 2-3 hrs and it started running rough, sort of cycling up & down. Put in new fuel filters the next day ($23) & that solved that. I had thought the tank was pretty clean but I've found water in the diesel fuel and shaking the machine up pretty good probably loosens things up. I'll use it some today or tommorow & see how shuttle is when it's not warmed up to too hot. I'll put foot accelerator & add fluid to loader. I would advise you all to buy stock in hydraulic fluid until I get all these leaks stopped. The dipper cylinder wiper started leaking Friday. From where I've been, leaking cylinders are like changing diapers to a new parent with twins. It's just something you do. This is/was sort of a disjointed dialogue. I welcome comments, suggestions, prayers, or donations. It's a good thing I just fool with these things for the fun of it. I can't afford to go bankrupt.
Packratc

 

[packratc]

Apologies for not editing the previous post. It's a mess. Damn, there's a B for sale near here for $2000. It's been in a flood. Just what I don't need. Packratc

 

[OldandWorn]

Still think that the torque tube is way over full. Take the dipstick out while it's' running & fluid goes everywhere. Checks several inches above the mark. fluid is so clear it's hard to see.

If the torque tube is over full would that mean that the torque converter is flooded? That could be the cause of your fluid getting hot.

 

[OldandWorn]

Damn, there's a B for sale near here for $2000. It's been in a flood. Just what I don't need. Packratc

You may not need it but we certainly do.

 

[packratc]

What do you need, OldandWorn? Thanks for the tip on the overheating fluid. I also noticed that the return line is about 3/8 inch from the exhaust pipe. Chico's been the operator for the last couple of days as he's a whole lot better and more confident than I am, especially on the rim of this here pond. I got out & operated it for about an hour.. Started good & went in gear after about 4 minutes of warming up. Temperature is about 55F here. Moved dirt/clay for about 45 minutes. In/out gear real good for about half an hour and then started to hesitate going into reverse. Always goes foward with a jerk & front wheels come up if you have any kind of RPM at all. Engine temperature up to 200F while shuttle is pausing going into reverse. I include this to let you know how much I was using it. Pressure guage hooked up where dash guage used to be, is incremented in 10 degrees. Starts working at 195-200 lbs. Goes to zero when clutch is depressed. Consistently stays at 190 in foward. Shuttle to reverse & drops to 145 or so and then hesitates before hooking up. I'm wondering if my fluid is thinning out with temperature rise. I'm using Tractor Supply Pureflo (sp?) Extreme. Says it is Hytrans compatable. Costs $35 for 5 gallons. Using it in loader and shuttle. Am wondering if I added lucas or some other hi-grade oil to thicken it up. Or, should I go to a better oil? I'll drain some fluid tomorrow & see if that helps the temperatue. Might wait until I get starter gasket. Let me know what you all think. Thanks, packratc
I'm thinking I might buy that B. It's about 70 miles. Probably cost me $200 to $300 to get it here. What do you need, OldandWorn or do you want the whole deal?

 

[OldandWorn]

What do you need, OldandWorn or do you want the whole deal?

Oh goodness gracious no Packy....buy the B for thee. This thread is winding down and we need some continuing entertainment.

 

[CasIns]

Hang in there Packrat, at least she's doing work for you.

Pretty odd shuttle symptoms you describe, I don't really know what to say about that. A few things I'll say from experience with my B's shuttle though. First, the pressure on my machine seems to be the same in forward and reverse, although thats just going by eyeball from the stock gauge. On the B at least there is also supposed to be a warning light for when the shuttle temp gets too high, but its probably missing on your machine like on mine.

As for fluid the old machines need TCH compliant fluid, not HyTrans stuff. The cheap stuff they sell at the TSC near me isn't TCH compatible. I doubt that would explain your problems, but who knows.

 

[packratc]

Thanks,CasIns, for the reply. I'll check on the TCH fluid. I don't think my CK ever had a temperature guage for the shuttle. I'll check the manual, though. I would have thought that the pressure would be/stay the same also. I wonder about the three rings that seal mainshaft in the torque tube. If one had more wear, specifically the one that seals reverse, don't know if that is the front or the rear one, if that could be the difference. But it seems that it would be low all the time. Hope someone else can tell me the difference in the fluids. Thanks again, Packratc

 

[OldandWorn]

Oh goodness gracious no Packy....buy the B for thee. This thread is winding down and we need some continuing entertainment.

I hope that comment didn't come across the wrong way. It was meant as a compliment to your writing and thread that always rates high on my smile meter. What I know about a CK was gained from this thread so I haven't been much help there.

 

[packratc]

No, not taken the wrong way. I liked your turn of the word, "buy the B for thee". The person who has the B for sale emailed me today. The hoe was involved in the flood of 2010. Someone told him not to try to start it until he drained all the fluids. He's not done so & has never tried to turn it over by hand. Told him that a winter with a hoe full of water may have frozen & broken a LOT. By him not doing that I asked him if the hoe belonged to him. Seems like everyone that would own a backhoe would know to drain EVERYTHING right away and especially before a freeze. Packratc

 

[alrman]

I'm thinking I might buy that B.

!!!!????
Hey Packrat, Keep going like this & you will be crowned the HEF 580CK/B GURU! Good to hear Pandora is out in the sunshine again, even if she is leaving some trails behind her .......

 

[packratc]

Good to hear from you Alrman. Have used her now for four days straight about 4 to 5 hrs a day. Engine has overheated a little bit & I'm thinking that the radiator cap is too weak. I'd like to know what pressure they're suppposed to have. i'm pretty sure I had the shuttle over full. It's leaked down now & not leaking as much but the pressure has dropped also. It's go in foward real well but hesitates going into reverse. Pressure seems to stay higher in foward. It'll go in either gear at about 125 lbs. I don't have a stock guage. I had one made incremented in 10 lbs up to 600lbs. Did so so I can move it around and test all three ports. As of right now I've only had it in the port for the dash guage. As it's been so long since I've had it to use I've really been wanting to see it work. Kind of a self reward for all the time, work, and money. Incidently, when the shuttle engages it does so harshly and when you push it will do so until the tires spin & dig into the earth. Will continue in another post.

 

[packratc]

I have yet to pick up & install the starter gasket. Can't get it until Monday. At this point I have a hole in the metal loader line that decends below the loader control. It has been poorly repaired before. I'll have to take it off, grind down the bad welding and see if I can reweld it or have it repaired with a high pressure fitting. Also the right front loader cylinder has always leaked. I've got a replacement. Now the dipper cylinder is leaking at the wiper seal as is one of the backhoe swing cylinders. It just started and is leaking worse than all the rest. Oh, & there's three of the control valves leaking. It's now too expensive to run. I can't pick up the kits until Monday either. Maybe I should drain the shuttle and messure the amount of fluid that is in it & I'll have a baseline. I probably need to change to a different shuttle fluid. I probably need to change the shuttle filter. And, I probably need to check the shuttle linkage adjustments again and perform all the pressure tests at the three ports. If the tests indicate I might shim the regulator spool valve to increase pressure. I might do that anyway as the line pressure won't affect my leaks. I don't think. Do you think I need to consider a shuttle temperature guage? When we're done running it you can't check the shuttle fluid level as the plug with the dipstick is too hot to touch. Would appreciate any comments or feedback. I'm still fumbling around in the dark. Thanks, Packratc

 

[alrman]

It all sounds like you need a "to do list" & to list repairs in order of importance or should I say, loss of oil........
The loss of pressure when in reverse is a problem as shimming won't fix that - but the transmission does not work hard in reverse & it may last for some time, depending on how much you use it.
As far as fitting a shuttle temp gauge - I would not. But, get hold of a infra red thermometer & see what it actually is running at. It may be getting hot & warming the engine with it ......

 

[packratc]

I'll have to mull over the fact that the shimming won't fix the reverse. I would have thought that any increase in pressure would help. Some folks have said that I may have leaks or cracks in the torque converter. My feeling is that if it goes in gear and pulls hard for first it has to do the same thing for reverse as the torque converters function is always the same no matter where the fluid is routed behind it. I think that they felt that the torque converter was leaking too much fluid into the bell housing and causing exessive leaks. What do you think? Also, the chart for fluids for the 580ck shown here on this forum indicates High Trans for the shuttle fluid. Is it a replacement fluid for something that used to be used. This stuff breaks down to about 10 weight when it gets hot. Sure seems to me to need to stay a pretty much the same viscosity as when you put it in. Opinion? Thanks, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Re: shimming - this will give the operating system more pressure, but the leakage that is causing the pressure drop in reverse will still drop the same pressure.
Re: convertor cracks & excessive leakage into bellhousing - my first reply on this thread (page 4 #46) covers this
Re: Hytrans - Very good oil made for Case that was not in existence when the CK/B's were being made. Case recommend this oil for just about all their transmission applications nowdays. But, any 10wt transmission oil made by your most convenient supplier should suffice - (Case TCH) that is what was originally put into these transmissions.

Re: engine overheating - I don't recall you saying there was a problem with the engine getting hot after the engine rebuild & before the transmission saga. Is that right? Did the engine start to overheat only after the tranny repair?
:drinkup