Replacing injectors on a 580sl

[Doug580l]

I am planning on replacing the injectors but need help. I read the service manual and it sounds easy but now that I am closer to doing it I have several questions.

1) Do I need to remove the turbo? I'm pretty sure that I'll need to remove the muffler and brackets but if I try to remove the turbo, it looks like the bolts will break. They might break for the muffler brackets too.

2) I can't find the tools that the book says to use. A CAS-1066A wrench and a CAS-2155 injector cleaning tool. What should I use instead? I've tried searching online for a similar looking wrench, but I don't know what it's called and can't find anything like it. I've looked at some injector bore cleaning kits, but none of them have the 7mm size that I need and they are brushes. The Case tool doesn't look like a brush.

3) How do I clean the port? I've watch several videos on youtube but they were different engines and the procedures were all over the place. From wire and nylon brushes to carb cleaner and a rag on a stick.

4) Anything special I should be careful of so that I don't cause any damage?

Obviously I don't know what I'm doing and would appreciate any help. I do have the engine off the machine so that makes it easier to get to.

Thanks,
Doug

 

[alrman]

1) Yes, either the turbo or the exhaust manifold with the turbo - you need that space to extract at least two of the injectors.
The broken bolts...... well..... oxy, hammer, penetrating oil, are your friends.
2) I don't have any special tools, apart from a deep 15/16" socket. Never used an injector cleaning tool - ever. Just compressed air to make sure the hole is clean.
3) See item 2....
4) Use anti seize, especially make sure that there is some between the nut & injector body.
Also, be sure the small quadring is in place to seal between the nut & body once the injector is fitted. You will be thankful you did this the next time you ever need to pull the injectors.
They are no fun when the nut is seized to the body during removal.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Just remove the return line.. & then the 12pt hold down nut w/ 15/16 deep wall socket..
I've never had to remove a turbo or manifolds..
The tool is a slide hammer w/ the appropriate sized nut.. I think its a 12x1.5mm

 

[Doug580l]

Thanks for the help. It is appreciated!

Doug

 

[Doug580l]

I got 1 injector off. I ended having to use a 1/2" impact wrench at the highest setting. The second one isn't moving at all. Any suggestions? I don't want to damage anything by using too much force. It's been soaked with liquid wrench overnight. I've tried a breaker bar with a pipe. Heated it up with oxy-acet. Other than heating it up more than previously I don't know what else to try.

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Spray the injector nuts with WD40 it will help loosen the rust.

 

[alrman]

I would not recommend using an impact wrench in the removal process.
You don't want the injector body to turn during the removal process, as they have a ball bearing moulded into them which locates the injector into a groove in the cylinder head.
It is very possible to destroy that groove if the injector body turns with the nut.

Patience is required using a good penetrating oil & using a hammer & flat chisel to "shock" the retaining nut.
Use of a stepped ring spanner on the nut & an open ender on the flats of the injector to hold it's position to save it from turning.

When I mentioned "oxy" in the post above, it was intended for use on exhaust bolts & nuts - not injectors....

 

[Doug580l]

I would not recommend using an impact wrench in the removal process.
You don't want the injector body to turn during the removal process, as they have a ball bearing moulded into them which locates the injector into a groove in the cylinder head.
It is very possible to destroy that groove if the injector body turns with the nut.

Patience is required using a good penetrating oil & using a hammer & flat chisel to "shock" the retaining nut.
Use of a stepped ring spanner on the nut & an open ender on the flats of the injector to hold it's position to save it from turning.

When I mentioned "oxy" in the post above, it was intended for use on exhaust bolts & nuts - not injectors....

I should of asked about using the impact wrench before using it. 3 of the injectors are out now, but the one that I used the impact wrench on is still stuck and now it moves back and forth about 1/4" so the groove is obviously damaged. I am hoping that since it is damaged in the "loosening" direction that when the new one is put in and tightened it will be OK.

I don't have a spanner wrench so I ordered one and it won't get here for 5 or 6 days. I will add penetrating oil to it daily to let it soak until the wrench arrives. I might try the chisel and hammer too. No matter what I do, I will be using an open end wrench on the flat area so that it's not damaged any more.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I feel your pain.. I've seen those things stuck like your describing.. it aint fun..
If u can get a "socket" or something.. maybe a small piece of pipe to fit down over the injector but yet rest on the nut.. & shock the hell outa it w/ a hammer afew time a day & keep spraying it w/ a good penetrating oil..
It might just break lose..
& whatever u do, don't let it turn to much more..
that slot locates the injector tip for the proper spray pattern.. its very important.. IF it keeps turning, u probably messed up/sheared the little ball bearing on the injector..
its common & replaceable in most/some cases.. but costs "extra".. & you'll probably get hit w/ a "core charge" if your gonna exchange them for rebuilt ones..

 

[Doug580l]

I feel your pain.. I've seen those things stuck like your describing.. it aint fun..
If u can get a "socket" or something.. maybe a small piece of pipe to fit down over the injector but yet rest on the nut.. & shock the hell outa it w/ a hammer afew time a day & keep spraying it w/ a good penetrating oil..
It might just break lose..
& whatever u do, don't let it turn to much more..
that slot locates the injector tip for the proper spray pattern.. its very important.. IF it keeps turning, u probably messed up/sheared the little ball bearing on the injector..
its common & replaceable in most/some cases.. but costs "extra".. & you'll probably get hit w/ a "core charge" if your gonna exchange them for rebuilt ones..

Thanks, I'll keep working on it a little bit each day until the spanner wrench arrives.

 

[thepumpguysc]

What the hellis this "spanner" everyone keeps mentioning??
Just a box end 15/16 wrench?? THATS all u need if your gonna use 2 wrenches..
I'm confused..

 

[alrman]

"Spanner" is Australian for "Wrench" - Get with the lingo mate! @thepumpguysc

This is the what Case sell to remove the injectors.
I don't own one as I have always used the deep socket OR a deep ring "spanner" with an open ender on the stubborn ones

 

[thepumpguysc]

THATS what I was thinkin'.. WHY did he have to ORDER ONE??

 

[Coy Lancaster]

15/16 deep well socket works for me most times.

 

[Doug580l]

THATS what I was thinkin'.. WHY did he have to ORDER ONE??

I had to google spanner wrench to find out what is was. I guess it's an offset wrench. I can't get a regular box end on it without removing the turbo and the exhaust manifold. Here's what I ordered from amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07639Z78D/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[thepumpguysc]

OH.. I see.. u got the "off-set" set.. that looks like it would fit..
Heres hoping for the best.. Like I said, I've seen'm give the best of mechanics "fits"..
& I've gotten the injectors in w/ the balls sheared off.. & the bottom nuts removed.. where they became unscrewed while still in the head..
Just take ur time..

 

[Doug580l]

1) Yes, either the turbo or the exhaust manifold with the turbo - you need that space to extract at least two of the injectors.
The broken bolts...... well..... oxy, hammer, penetrating oil, are your friends.
2) I don't have any special tools, apart from a deep 15/16" socket. Never used an injector cleaning tool - ever. Just compressed air to make sure the hole is clean.
3) See item 2....
4) Use anti seize, especially make sure that there is some between the nut & injector body.
Also, be sure the small quadring is in place to seal between the nut & body once the injector is fitted. You will be thankful you did this the next time you ever need to pull the injectors.
They are no fun when the nut is seized to the body during removal.

There is are o-rings that came with the new injectors, is that the "quadring" that you're referring too? There is no mention of the o-ring in the service manual. It looks like there could of been o-rings on top of the nuts on the old ones. Otherwise, the only place I can see that the o-rings might go is in the channel in the middle of the injectors.

 

[Doug580l]

I finally got the last injector off. As suggested, the penetrating oil, shocking and shocking the injector did it. Thanks!

I do have a few more questions before I put the new ones in

1) I sprayed compressed air in the bores. On one of them the air came out the other side of the engine where I removed the hose going to the turbo. Is that a problem?

2) Where do the O-rings that came with the new injectors go? There aren't mentioned in the service manual.

3) A couple of the bores and injectors seemed to have a lot of carbon build up and one was very clean and kind of tan colored(injector was too). Is that normal or does it mean that something isn't working properly?

4) Anything else I should do before I install the new ones? I do have the proper torques for them and will be using copper anti-seize.

As always, thank you

 

[thepumpguysc]

After u install them, the oring goes between the top of the nut & the body.. its just to keep the crap out.
The orings are "square cut" so make sure they don't get twisted & use a small screwdriver to push'm in..
The air might just be that a valve is open & the air is just moving thru..
The carbon is prob. from the injectors weren't seated.??
I use a cut up piece of scotch-brite on an old fuel line.. I cut a slot in the fuel line & push the sc.br. into the slot.. then put it in a drill.. & run it up & down in the inj. cylinder.. & blow it out..

 

[Doug580l]

After u install them, the oring goes between the top of the nut & the body.. its just to keep the crap out.
The orings are "square cut" so make sure they don't get twisted & use a small screwdriver to push'm in..
The air might just be that a valve is open & the air is just moving thru..
The carbon is prob. from the injectors weren't seated.??
I use a cut up piece of scotch-brite on an old fuel line.. I cut a slot in the fuel line & push the sc.br. into the slot.. then put it in a drill.. & run it up & down in the inj. cylinder.. & blow it out..

Thanks and sorry for all the questions,

Would it be ok to use a brass brush on the cylinder bores? I have one that seems about the right size that is used with a drill.

Do I need to turn the engine so that the valve is closed when I clean the cylinders to keep the debris out?

I don't know how to tell if the injectors were seated properly or not, they all looked the same to me. The machine seems to have been used hard and not maintained well for years. I bought the machine this spring and when I changed the oil, the old oil filter was marked 7-2010.