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Removing studs from hub

Discussion in 'Motor Graders' started by Welder Dave, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I am getting some adapters made to fit my new wheels and tires on the existing hubs on a Champion grader. I'd like to remove the rim clamp studs and replace them with bolts for a cleaner look and more clearance for the wheels. Just wondering how hard it might be to remove the studs? I don't know if they'll come out fairly easily or will need heat. I don't want to damage the threads in the hubs. Is there a common practice for installing studs? Here is pic. of similar hubs with the studs.

    brake2.jpg (1200×803) (vannattabros.com)
     
  2. DB2

    DB2 Senior Member

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    Double nut them and unscrew. Heat may be required. I would like to see a picture of the finished product as I have one I would like to convert.
     
  3. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Hoping they aren't too hard to remove as there's 60 of them to do. Some look like they have been replaced because they are plated with new rim clamps and others are pretty rusty. I'll try to get some proper size pics. up of the adapters and new wheels mounted. Not sure when I'm going to be tackling it yet. I found a reasonable priced machine shop to tap the adapters and they are trying to get me a better price on cutting them out of 3/4" plate. It's nice when you find a shop that is trying to save you money. It benefits them too as they will make more money if they handle the whole job. Wheels will stick out2 1/2" more on each side but I don't think it will make much difference other than they won't line up with the front wheels. I only got 4 new wheels but the fronts are fine using the rim clamps. The nice thing with the adapters is they can be taken off and the rim clamps can be used if desired. Unless there's some kind of catastrophic failure I don't think the new wheels will be coming off for quite some time.
     
    Tinkerer and DB2 like this.
  4. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    Sometimes double nut won't work, I've had to weld nuts onto the studs on a dayton hub, so I could put a impact on them to walk them out. With 60 of them to do, if you could run the nut past the end of the stud and then weld, you can probably keep cutting the nut off with a grinder so you don't have to buy 60 new nuts to weld on.
     
    DB2 likes this.
  5. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I called Jade since they specialize in Champion and they basically said what I was thinking, try the double nuts and if that doesn't work try some heat. They said to run the nuts up close to the hubs. I saw other suggestions to have the nuts out further but I think you run into more chance of them braking when further out. The hubs are cast steel and it looks like some studs have been replaced so hopefully I'll get lucky. I can weld the existing nuts if I have to. Bolts would just make for a neater assembly with the wheel adapters. For the bolts I'll use grade 5 for the outer and the wheels but wasn't sure how much I should torque grade 5 bolts into mild steel or cast steel? I don't think I want to use grade 5 torque settings especially on the wheel bolts because the plate is only 3/4" thick and not quite as thick as a standard nut. Close though when you consider the chamfer on nuts.
     
  6. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I picked up my adapters today and they look really good. The bolting and fastening company is a distributor for Nord Lock washers and that's what they recommended for keeping all the bolts tight. The guy said Loctite doesn't really work that good for vibration and dynamic loads like wheels would have. It cost me more but I went with the Nord Lock washers. They aren't affected by oil or contaminated and can be reused. The 5/8" were cheaper to buy by the box of 100 rather than buying 60 individual at $1.63ea. The 1" they had an open box but were quite a bit more at $6.25ea. I figured I should just bite the bullet and mount the wheels and adapters the best possible way. I don't want them coming loose, especially the 5/8" outer bolts that you can't get too when the wheels are on. The specialist said I should be good using grade 5 torque ratings on the bolts. He gave me some special lube packets to use on the bolts so I don't need as big of a torque wrench. I'll take some pics and try to make them a good size to see. Just hoping the studs are fairly easy to replace with bolts. It's costing more than I wanted but think projects like this always do. I didn't want to cut too many corners because if they failed could cause major damage.
     
  7. JLarson

    JLarson Senior Member

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    If I have to pull a bunch of studs like that I don't need again I just grab a box of plain steel nuts and weld em on then blast em out with the appropriate gun.
     
  8. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I'm going to get a few heavy hex nuts (larger wrench size) and see if they might come out with an impact wrench when double nutted. Even If I have to initially use a hand wrench the impact would spin them out fast once they're loose. If not just welding the old nuts on might be the most efficient way to get them out. It was suggested by Tinkerer to put a nut on the end and give them a good whack with a hammer before trying to loosen them. I'm glad they're 5/8" and not 1" like the bolts I'm using for the wheels. There's enough bolts and washers that the costs can add up pretty quickly. 100 bolts and Nord Lock washers for 4 wheels.
     
  9. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Was working on the adapters today and discovered a couple of mistakes on them. I'll try to get some pics. up later. When they were cut out the pockets they made for my centering pins weren't even close to being on the right diameter and required quite a bit of work with a die grinder. Not hard to grind but hard to get them square and straight when having to grind about 1/8" deeper on every one. They weren't consistent either which was odd. Some the pins were loose and some the pin didn't even fit in the pocket.
    The other mistake was with the holes the machine shop did. They fit the wheel but who ever set them up for maching didn't go off the template I supplied. They put the threaded holes equal distance on either side of the cut out for the valve stem guard. They will work but there's about a 1/4" gap around the guard on 1 side and over 1 1/2" gap in the other. I made a point of telling them the guard was not centered between the bolt holes. My guess is the machinist thought he was correcting a mistake on my template. They will work but look amateurish. Only way to fix would be to make all new plates or weld the threaded holes up and redo them. I'm not going to fix them but will let the machine shop know they messed up a bit. Curious how upset others would be or what they would do if a shop made a mistake on something that was clearly pointed out? Maybe I should get a bit of a refund or something for their mistake?
     
  10. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    I would think that if they take any pride in their work they would cut correct replacements.
     
  11. 56wrench

    56wrench Senior Member

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    I would take them back with your template and show them where they messed up and see what they have to say. You may not get satisfaction but it won't hurt to try
     
  12. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I suppose they could put another set of threaded holes in them but if they offered to give back some money back might be OK. I know if I made a mistake like that in a shop, I'd hear about it. I think who ever set them up for drilling either forgot or wasn't told the cut outs aren't centered with the holes for the wheels. They are centered with the holes on the outside on the hubs. A simple mistake but a mistake all the same. The expression "it's all in the details" comes to mind. The guy I was dealing with was really nice. The adapters weigh about 50lbs. a piece so I want to move them as little as possible. I'm aching pretty good today just from leaning over die grinding and welding the locating pins and having to pick them up to move them a short distance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021 at 5:41 PM