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Refuse extraction unit for a 22' goosneck utility trailer

Discussion in 'Demolition' started by tmc_31, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Hey guys, just wanted to spitball an idea I had for a way to unload refuse from a utility type trailer.

    The last thread I posted "Mobile Home Demo" I estimated that there will be about 100 cyds of trash that will have to be disposed of. Of course, my first thought was to have 3-30 yd roll offs set for this trash. The cost will be just under $2,000. If I could haul it off myself on my 22' utility trailer, I could save the customer about $600.00 and put a healthy chunk of the remainder in my own pocket instead of giving it to the roll off company.

    By putting 2' side boards on my GN, I think I can get about 12 yards of refuse on it. The top of the sideboards would be 2' above the bed. The problem is getting the trash off. Some landfills offer a pull off service, others don't. Mine doesn't.

    I am thinking about building an "extractor plate" to set in the front of the trailer bed. This plate would consist of a 3"X3"X1/4" steel tube set across the trailer bed with 4-2' uprights of the same material welded to it and a tongue also welded to the bar. It would need to be heavy enough to withstand the forces involved in the extraction but light enough so that it could be manhandled back to the front of the trailer once the extraction was over. I would mount a 12000lb winch (which I have sitting on the shelf) to the front of the trailer. I would route the cable from the front of the trailer over two pulleys then underneath the trailer bed, over two more pulleys at the rear of the trailer and then over the top of the trailer bed to the tongue on the extractor plate.

    I should be able to stand at the rear of the trailer with a radio remote for the winch and pull the extractor plate to the rear of the trailer pushing the trash off the end of the trailer.

    I don't think this will work for pulling off high density loads like concrete, brick or fill dirt. It might however work fine on broken up walls, mixed roofing materials, brush etc.

    Since a proper dump truck or even a dump trailer is probably not in the cards right now, would this be a worthwhile alternative?

    Tim
     
  2. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    I used to play with similar ideas. IMO, save up for a dump while using roll offs.
     
  3. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Lumberjack, you are probably entirely correct. However, after some research I have decided that I need a 7X14 dump with 7k axles. It will be big enough and have enough capacity to haul my skidsteer to the jobsite and move a fair amount of trash. We are talking $7.5k to $8k. It's going to be awhile unless I can find a project that pays really well. I don't really want to go into debt for this.

    Last week I used my skid to load trash onto a lady's 16' utility trailer. Then I rode with her to the landfill where we unloaded the trailer by hand. I am to old for very much of that. Turns out she was one of those property preservation contractors. She had been doing it for 6 years. I asked her why she didn't have a dump trailer, she said she could always find help to unload the one she had. Ha, she was kind of cute:). She unloaded two more loads by herself.

    I am just looking for an interim method until I can find a dump trailer worth the money and roll offs aren't always available. They can also be pretty expensive for a small job.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  4. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    For $8k I would buy a large gooseneck dump. Mine has made tons.
     
  5. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Lumberjack, that is a whole nother topic. I still haven't decided between the goosneck and the tag. Each has it's advantages. I am leaning to the tag though to preserve the bed space in my pickup. Another limitation I have set is stay at 14k or below so I can avoid the DOT thing.

    We have a bunch of storm chasers (roofers) in the area after a pretty bad hail storm almost a year ago now. I am hoping when they start to move out to find a deal on a dump trailer.

    Tim
     
  6. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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  7. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting the video Delmer, kind of validates the concept doesn't it? He says that he is using a 8k winch there, mine is a 12k Warn. Should be able to double line it if I need to.

    That is a really nice extractor plate (sled) that he is using, I am very impressed.

    Tim
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    When it comes down to demo debris, either a roll-off or a semi debris dump trailer (60 CY) is the most efficient way to transport the debris.

    If you built your trailer, you would need some guides to keep the push out blade straight and anchored to the trailer - like a push out or packer garbage truck has. Without this, the blade would ride over the debris and increase the chance of getting debris behind the blade.

    Personally I wouldn't spend the time nor effort to build such a trailer. Demo debris is rough as hell on equipment and I doubt it would hold up to what you want to do.

    I did a demo for a buddy of mine a few months ago. My price was to take the structure down and load out. I got him together with my roll-off guy. Well my buddy thought he would save money on the roll-offs and haul the debris himself - or some of it rather, in order to make more money.

    Long story short - the 30's were averaging $380 or so apiece. In one day my buddy hauled 6 loads with a 7x14 trailer. 8 hours of labor (he didn't drive), over a $100 in fuel, a blown trailer tire and dump fees. I'm not even doing the math but you get the picture.:cool2
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  9. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    CM1995,

    I am sure that you are correct at least in most instances that roll offs are the most efficient way of getting rid of demo refuse. Unfortunately using roll offs is not cost effective for much of the work that I do (very small demo, brush hauling ect.). In the case of the mobile home demo that I was describing in an earlier thread, the cost per can is $695.00. The roll off company will only bring me one can at a time (he said that is their policy). For most of the jobs that I do a dump trailer is probably the best tool. It will be a while before I can spring for a dump trailer. My cost to rig my utility trailer will be minimal as I already own the winch, the trailer and the materials to build the ejector plate. I should only have to purchase some 1-1/8" plywood for side boards and I will have to build some pullys and brackets in my machine shop. All in all, a few hundred dollars ought to get me going.

    Did you look at the video that Delmar posted? I was impressed with his extractor plate. At first it looked like it was made of metal but on closer inspection, I think it was made up of plywood. Anyway, it seemed to work pretty well.

    Tim
     
  10. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Do you know why the cans are so expensive - relative to what I pay ($365 in average)? Hauling distance, dump fees? I would think Abilene would have a competitive roll-off market.

    I did look at the video that Delmar posted and frankly it would work great for a weekend warrior fire wood cutter but wouldn't hold up to repeated demo debris or regular use. Just my $.02. Not trying to be an ass, that's just my honest opinion.
     
  11. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    Cm1995,

    We have two roll off vendors in Abilene, one is the City the other is a metals recycling place. The mobile home demo that I asked about in a previous thread led me to look for a more economical way to get rid of this kind of refuse. The job is in a small town, not Abilene, that is 25 miles from the Abilene landfill and doesn't have a land fill of there own (a 50 mile round trip). I didn't feel that the City of Abilene would provide roll off service outside the City so I called the other guys. I assume that the reason the fees are high is because of the mileage. I had gotten pricing from the city on another job a month or so ago and they were $411/can. Even if the City of Abilene was able to do it, I suspect the costs would be about the same due to the mileage.

    Don't worry about offending me, I have developed a pretty thick skin over the years:). You've been at this a long time while I am a relative newbie to the heavy equipment game. While I may not always follow your lead, I do respect your opinion. You have provided some invaluable advice over the last couple of years and I appreciate it.

    Tim
     
  12. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    I agree, I don't think anybody suggested that this is comparable to a real dump trailer, or dumpster. There were times back in the day when I would have loved to have a trailer like that. I think I'd still use it quite a bit, I'm not an excavation or demo contractor. It sure beats hiring a guy to ride to the landfill to help you unload, or doing by yourself by hand.

    There were several similar videos, just search "unloading trailer winch" or something like that.
     
  13. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I didn't think you were suggesting that, I was just giving my $.02 to TMC who asked about it. However, that would be a time and back saver in the right applications.:)
     
  14. joispoi

    joispoi Senior Member

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    My first thought is why would you give $600 back to the customer? If the roll off company gets $2,000 to haul it away with their trucks, you should get the same to haul it with your trailer. Between setting up what you're planning to do, making the trips to the dump and then unloading, you're going to earn every dollar if you bill the same rate as for using containers.

    One problem I see is thin material slipping under the scraper and getting wedged against the floor or the sides of the trailer. When pushing a load off horizontally, the full weight of the load is sitting on the deck of the trailer. There's going to be more wear and tear occurring than if the trailer were tilted and dumped.



    You could borrow this guy's trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTbZbvIAYT8






    I can appreciate the thinking outside the box. I worked a job for a while where I drove a flat bed truck with a crane. There were a few times when a side dump set up (that could have been hoisted with the crane) would have been handy. Another option might be to put some cables down under the load and then loop them back over when it's fully loaded. If you can tie off to something at the dump site you can just drive forward to unload. This guy's method is pretty simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4luWJQagL64

    Re-confirm the prices on containers. Call everyone you can find. If they are all as expensive as you say, there's the need for your services and you have the opportunity to get into the market. It could be worth your while to think about selling your flat bed trailer and investing in a dump trailer.

    If you get a loan on a trailer, you can write off the depreciation. It would be yours tax free at the end of the loan.
     
  15. tmc_31

    tmc_31 Senior Member

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    joispoi,

    This is a guy (the customer) that really wanted to trade the demo for the scrap value in the trailer. I am estimating the scrap value at a little more than $300.00. He doesn't have a realistic view of what the demo would cost. I feel that it is in my best interest to keep the demo price as low as I can (while still making some money) so he will let me do the job. If my price is to high, he will just let the trailer sit while he waits until he can find someone dumb enough to take the demo on for the scrap value. Then what is likely to happen is the scrapper will take what is of value and leave the rest for him to deal with. I can reduce his cost by $600 and still put about $700 more money in my pocket by hauling myself. I am sure it won't always work out that way but in this case, it does.

    The first video that you refer to is just what I have in mind, only just a little bigger. The second video that you link to show a guy using a stake to tie off the load to then driving out from under it. Pretty much a standard "pull off". At the local land fills they don't offer a pull off service (liability issues). While tying off to a stake may work pretty good pulling off 4-500lb, I don't think it will work well pulling off 5 tons of debris.

    The prices of roll offs here are what they are, choices are limited.

    I don't want to go into debt for a dump trailer. I would if I have a job or a few jobs lined up that would justify that debt (pay it out in a short time) certainly I would. However, I don't think this job qualifies.

    Tim
     
  16. joispoi

    joispoi Senior Member

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    I wouldn't invest in anything based on one job alone, either. But, if they costs of roll offs are that high, there's probably room for competition. (not a recommendation, just a casual observation)

    I have 2 8m3 containers. I keep one on the truck for my excavating jobs and rent the other one out. It's no get rich quick plan, but it fills in some of the down time and pays a couple of bills. Having the dumpster rental has also led to some excavating jobs.

    If you're anything like me, you're probably going to cringe when your compacting the debris on your trailer. You might want to make the sides a little higher if possible for higher volume/ lower density.

    Otherwise, if you can cut it/separate it into slabs and stack them on the trailer, that's probably going to give you a pretty good sized load. Your winch idea would work pretty well for unloading.