Recommendations on pricing/selling used equipment

[EquipEval10]

I don't understand this thread. What is the OP trying to do (really)?

Super sleuths in the construction business (hats off to you all)! Okay friends, coming semi-clean, this was a research study I needed to conduct to obtain more info about the construction equipment resale market without directly interviewing people. Gaining more information about the market, selling, how experts assess value, etc. I hope you all don't see this as spam or a waste of time, and I appreciate all the information.

 

[Welder Dave]

Stock pics. taken from the internet? Something is definitely askew. OP needs to clarify a few things. Forget the FBI, when you've got Colson and Boone Equipment Investigators on the case. Who knew there'd be a "who-done-it" on the forum.

What's wrong with interviewing people to do research and what do you mean coming semi-clean? Much better to explain what you're looking for and why instead of trying to deceive people. There are top notch investigators on this forum as you've found out. Come 100% clean or we'll find you.

 

[colson04]

Good grief Colson are you and Boone employed by the FBI ?

I can't speak for Boone as I don't know how he found his source, but I just used Google and searched for the insurance agent on the billboard from the Case 580 pic. Once I had the region (Ft. Worth area), I searched for 580 case in that region and bam, found the picture. The ditch witch was easier as there aren't 1000's of them in existence. Search for that model ditch witch and the pic from Machinery Trader pops up. The whole thread screamed scam/spam as @CM1995 mentioned earlier, and the pics shared didn't make sense either. A $20,000 backhoe with equipment lined up behind it, a $125,000 directional boring machine on a job, and a $10,000 sub-compact tractor? My B.S. meter pegged out and my curiosity led me to Google.

 

[EquipEval10]

Stock pics. taken from the internet? Something is definitely askew. OP needs to clarify a few things. Forget the FBI, when you've got Colson and Boone Equipment Investigators on the case. Who knew there'd be a "who-done-it" on the forum.

What's wrong with interviewing people to do research and what do you mean coming semi-clean? Much better to explain what you're looking for and why instead of trying to deceive people. There are top notch investigators on this forum as you've found out. Come 100% clean or we'll find you.

You're right, and to be honest I'm really impressed. Is there a need to be this diligent because of scams?
We've conducted 7 interview thus far with individuals ranging from small businesses to mid-size brokers. The goal was not to deceive, and I can see where you're coming from. That being said, this was the closest to observational research we could do thanks for COVID.

100% Clean: We are creating a sales/listing/fair market value assessment tool for used heavy equipment.

 

[aighead]

Yes, there is a need to be this diligent. Just speaking from my relatively minimal amount of searching around for a backhoe, prior to buying one, I found anecdotally, 70% of the backhoes on Craigslist to be fake ads. Not sure why.

This also feels vaguely familiar, as in other brand new forum members coming to ask kind of similar questions... If the goal is an AI based tool to value equipment I think you'll either find there are many too many variables or your tool will be wrong, a lot, or both. You can't value these machines from pictures on the internet.

Also, between @colson04 and @boone this is one of the greatest threads I've read. Thank you.

 

[EquipEval10]

Yes, there is a need to be this diligent. Just speaking from my relatively minimal amount of searching around for a backhoe, prior to buying one, I found anecdotally, 70% of the backhoes on Craigslist to be fake ads. Not sure why.

This also feels vaguely familiar, as in other brand new forum members coming to ask kind of similar questions... If the goal is an AI based tool to value equipment I think you'll either find there are many too many variables or your tool will be wrong, a lot, or both. You can't value these machines from pictures on the internet.

Also, between @colson04 and @boone this is one of the greatest threads I've read. Thank you.

"I found anecdotally, 70% of the backhoes on Craigslist to be fake ads. Not sure why."
3 of the folks we spoke to in interviews said that too. They stated that they moved from Craiglist to Facebook Marketplace since "they seem to do better at finding scams and removing the listings."

This won't be AI based (at least not from the beginning) however, it's interesting that other new people ask these same questions. Do you have example of tools you've used or use that are currently wrong?

 

[aighead]

I'm not a heavy equipment buyer, really, so nope. But again, your interviewing above, I think, shows that while I guess I misspoke to some extent to say that "you can't value these machines from pictures on the internet" because the members here can certainly lead you in a good direction, I think you'll really struggle to put a decision tree in place to provide accurate values for machines that are almost always looked at and used, in person, prior to purchase.

 

[Welder Dave]

Sign up on Ritchie Bros. and you can see what machines have sold for at auction. Machinery Trader and looking on dealer websites will tell you what dealers and private sellers are asking for price. Lots of variables so nothing is very exact.

 

[EquipEval10]

Sign up on Ritchie Bros. and you can see what machines have sold for at auction. Machinery Trader and looking on dealer websites will tell you what dealers and private sellers are asking for price. Lots of variables so nothing is very exact.

Thanks for that, we found a way to get data from 30+ auction sites to give more of a well-rounded view of how items have sold. Do you think that's valuable (having more than 1 example for sales)? I agree with you totally on the variables.

Would you ever buy a piece of equipment without physically meeting the seller and/or inspecting the equipment? Interested to hear your thoughts about if you'd ever feel comfortable with that situation. Thanks again for the commentary here.

 

[EquipEval10]

I'm not a heavy equipment buyer, really, so nope. But again, your interviewing above, I think, shows that while I guess I misspoke to some extent to say that "you can't value these machines from pictures on the internet" because the members here can certainly lead you in a good direction, I think you'll really struggle to put a decision tree in place to provide accurate values for machines that are almost always looked at and used, in person, prior to purchase.

Yes! The goal in our mind would be to give an upper and lower price range, based on the main variables you and others use to estimate value (knowing that a physical inspection is the only way to get really accurate data). That being said, the goal of this is mostly help the buyer/seller land on a reasonable price.

It will certainly be a struggle, no doubt about it. Besides hours, equipment age, and make/model... what variable are most important for you when you purchase (assuming you have not had a physical inspection)?

 

[Welder Dave]

Maintainence and repair history documentation goes a long way. A well maintained higher hour machine is better than a neglected low hour machine. People that buy without inspecting in person are asking for problems.

 

[EquipEval10]

Makes sense, I was reading a post here yesterday in which someone asked something like "where to find PM reports to be followed for routine maintenance" and the main guidance back was to read the operation manual and create your own. Is this something that people normally do? I assume it would dramatically help the resale value.

 

[Welder Dave]

Larger operations do for sure and the better small ones. It can be a challenge trying to remember what all has been done on numerous machines over their ownership. It also helps with resale. I don't think it's uncommon for mechanics or service people to make notes in the manual or in maintainence records of updates or changes in part numbers. I think the biggest thing most people want is good value for their money, whether it's a new, used or fixer upper machine. There have been a few threads on machines that were problematic from the the get go to let others know to avoid them.

 

[colson04]

It will certainly be a struggle, no doubt about it. Besides hours, equipment age, and make/model... what variable are most important for you when you purchase (assuming you have not had a physical inspection)?

As @Welder Dave said, maintenance records can have a big impact on sales price. Also, some equipment models come with many different options configurations that can greatly influence cost.

In regards to your question about buying sight unseen, no, I personally won't. I did buy a dump truck through an auction, but I saw the truck in person prior to the sale date and I knew it had transmission problems when I bought it. The other equipment I own I got to run prior to purchasing and I knew prior history on it.

 

[boone]

I can't reveal my secrets... Just kidding.

I just right clicked on the profile picture and there's an option to search google images. About the third link that came up was about an immigrant who'd moved from Brazil to Tasmania. Pretty similar to what Colson did.

Not a good way to gain trust with the members here. But guess you figured that out.

I wish there was a blue book for equipment, but like said, too many variables. I have a hard enough time making a good purchase when I see it, much less sight unseen.

 

[John C.]

If you are trying to make a tool that provides value opinion, you are way behind some other players. I maintain that you might be able to determine a range but, that isn't an appraisal that can be used for anything. As you have seen above, an appraisal includes a whole lot of data and then experience in interpreting it and then developing an opinion that can withstand challenge. Most sellers will not provide maintenance history for legal and ethical reasons. In most cases the machines have to represent themselves. What you see is what you get. It is up to the buyer to determine the facts and act in their own best interest.

 

[EquipEval10]

If you are trying to make a tool that provides value opinion, you are way behind some other players. I maintain that you might be able to determine a range but, that isn't an appraisal that can be used for anything. As you have seen above, an appraisal includes a whole lot of data and then experience in interpreting it and then developing an opinion that can withstand challenge. Most sellers will not provide maintenance history for legal and ethical reasons. In most cases the machines have to represent themselves. What you see is what you get. It is up to the buyer to determine the facts and act in their own best interest.

"you are way behind some other players."
Who are the other players you are talking about? I'd like to see what they have to offer and how their tools are used. That would help us know how to fit into the market (or not).

"Most sellers will not provide maintenance history for legal and ethical reasons."
What would be the ethical reason to not provide vehicle maintenance records? Seems like providing them would be quite ethical since it could prevent an accident or issue for the potential buyer. Also from that standpoint, I can see how this could provide a legal issue.

Thanks for the feedback here, I value your opinion. If you have some sources to provide please do!

 

[EquipEval10]

I can't reveal my secrets... Just kidding.

I just right clicked on the profile picture and there's an option to search google images. About the third link that came up was about an immigrant who'd moved from Brazil to Tasmania. Pretty similar to what Colson did.

Not a good way to gain trust with the members here. But guess you figured that out.

I wish there was a blue book for equipment, but like said, too many variables. I have a hard enough time making a good purchase when I see it, much less sight unseen.

No worries at all, and I appreciate you calling me on it. I've been under the incorrect impression that this industry was a bit less tech saavy, you've certainly cut me down to size with that terrible assumption. You have no idea how important this particular moment is for me and my team... it's nice to be proven wrong.

To your other statements, yes I've heard something similar to "I wish there was a blue book for equipment" and the goal is to come as close as possible. Honestly, tell me more about these variables seen or unseen. What isn't in the heavy equipment world today that would really help? What does Blue Book have that you don't have today?

 

[EquipEval10]

As @Welder Dave said, maintenance records can have a big impact on sales price. Also, some equipment models come with many different options configurations that can greatly influence cost.

In regards to your question about buying sight unseen, no, I personally won't. I did buy a dump truck through an auction, but I saw the truck in person prior to the sale date and I knew it had transmission problems when I bought it. The other equipment I own I got to run prior to purchasing and I knew prior history on it.

Yes, this is what 7 out of 7 people have told us thus far. I think building this into our assumptions as a "must" is a good choice for the time being. Is there anything that would make the meeting/interaction between buyer/seller better? What does a good interaction look like?
Thank you again!

 

[John C.]

There are companies here that run pay of information sites that send me their propaganda and some updates. I don't recall their names right now as my brain cells are old and tired. Equipment Watch I think is the one that keeps sending me materials lately telling how to handle my business. Green Guide used to brag that they could appraise any machine sight unseen. There were or are some others that I stopped paying attention to a long time ago.

As far as ethical reasons go, consider a sales agent having a history report showing a trend in oil sample reports and there was one of two bad reports. Do they reveal those or hide them? Most won't even acknowledge that any history exists. Let's say someone purchases a wheel loader and a month after the sale the boom breaks and drops the bucket on someone. Who is liable? Maybe there was a report of an engine rebuild at a certain point shortly before a sale. Was it done by a competent mechanic or was it just a throw together to get a machine sold? What if the machine has 15,000 hours of use, would a maintenance history make any difference? Used equipment is almost always sold "As Is, Where Is with all obvious and inherent deft." Any warranties provided are usually short term and a lot of times verbal. This industry has always been buyer beware.