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Recent 2014 Cat 299d xhp purchase

archangel95

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Apr 20, 2023
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27
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Waverly, Ks
I'd guess about 150 to 175 ftlb. It felt like it would fail if I went further. I agree the oil level has nothing to do with it. The o ring will fail within 12 hours of adding 10 quarts of oil though and remain intact if you don't.
 

Nige

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Was my request for a way to check hydraulic fluid level without using my gauge unreasonable? How does one check if their gauge is working correctly?
I’m also of the opinion that oil level in the tank will have no bearing on the loosening fitting and blown out O-Ring.

However I will offer these snippets that may or may not apply to your machine.

1. I’ve got evidence of machines, not all I hasten to add, where even after leaving the machine overnight there was a significant vacuum present in the tank when the fill cap was released.

2. After releasing the vacuum, and over the course of a couple of minutes, the indicated oil level in the tank increased.

Attached the oil level checking procedure which will be in your O&M Manual. I assume you do have one.?
 

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Nige

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I'd guess about 150 to 175 ftlb. It felt like it would fail if I went further. I agree the oil level has nothing to do with it. The o ring will fail within 12 hours of adding 10 quarts of oil though and remain intact if you don't.
The total tank capacity is only 10.3 gallons so ignoring the occasions when the O-Ring has blown that’s 25% of system capacity. That is more than excessive for a simple top-up. Do you have any idea where it is going.?
 

archangel95

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Waverly, Ks
It runs out on the ground after the o ring blows and it goes through the overflow. Going through overflow is why I assume gauge is not working. I'm going to examine it when I get the track tensioner back from welding to see how that hose is flexing when pressure is applied and whether I can reduce its movement by zip tying it to another hose. I noticed some ties in that hydraulic schematic. Unfortunately the side I have o ring problems with is not the side I have the track off.

Those machines that form a vacuum have a nice tight seal at cap i'd guess. Oil would heat air in tank up to 160 degrees or so for my machine. When it cooled it would create a vacuum just like a canning jar. Mine has a vacuum when I open it if my memory serves correctly. Why the gauge would rise after vacuum releases is counter intuitive to me unless gauge uses some kind of pressure potentiometer to measure level.

Thanks everyone for input.
 

Nige

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Mine has a vacuum when I open it if my memory serves correctly. Why the gauge would rise after vacuum releases is counter intuitive to me unless gauge uses some kind of pressure potentiometer to measure level.
Let me attempt to explain. If you look at the hydraulic oil cooler you will see that it is mounted higher than the hydraulic tank up on top of the radiator. The theory (as I understand it) is that the cooler will empty itself over time due to gravity when the machine is stopped and that oil will find its way back to the tank, thus raising the oil level. Under certain circumstances the “air lock” caused by the vacuum can prevent the oil draining back to tank from the cooler and so the tank level gauge will read low. Try opening the cap, release the vacuum, wait for 10 minutes then check the level again. I hope it helps in your case but I make no promises.
 

Nige

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Those machines that form a vacuum have a nice tight seal at cap i'd guess. Oil would heat air in tank up to 160 degrees or so for my machine. When it cooled it would create a vacuum just like a canning jar.
You have to bear in mind that the tank has an atmospheric breather that should mostly prevent that. Maybe the breather needs checking that it’s not plugged, or even replace it.? It’s mounted up on top of the LH side of the rear frame and connected to the tank by a hose.
 

archangel95

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Waverly, Ks
That hydraulic oil level checking procedure assumes the gauge is working properly. I'd like to verify my gauge is working correctly.
 

archangel95

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Messages
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Location
Waverly, Ks
The total tank capacity is only 10.3 gallons so ignoring the occasions when the O-Ring has blown that’s 25% of system capacity. That is more than excessive for a simple top-up. Do you have any idea where it is going.?
The o ring only blows when the needle on the gauge is in the green. I said 10 quarts because I estimate that's what I put in last time i tested this strange idea. It might have been a little less. I know that there is no obvious rational reason oil level would cause that o ring to blow. Unless maybe there was a restriction preventing oil from getting back to reservoir and causing pressures to climb beyond design parameters or added weight to hydraulic tank causes that hose to flex differently or something else I havent considered.
 

Nige

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What would cause hydraulic oil to go through the breather?
Oil level too high then expansion due to temperature is one possibility that I can think of.
That hydraulic oil level checking procedure assumes the gauge is working properly. I'd like to verify my gauge is working correctly.
There is no way I know of testing the gauge other than to replace it with a new one. The Part Number is 345-4583. The gauge must be installed so that it is oriented the same way as your photo on the previous page.
 

Nige

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Herewith the installation instructions. Make sense of them if you can because I can’t.

Sight gauge should be tightened to orient gauge.
Minimum tighten to 14 N·m (124 lb in) continue to tighten the sight gauge until correct orientation of 0 to 15 degrees is achieved from horizontal plan.

Maximum tighten to 22 N·m (195 lb in).
 

heymccall

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Feb 19, 2007
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Western Pennsylvania
Herewith the installation instructions. Make sense of them if you can because I can’t.

Sight gauge should be tightened to orient gauge.
Minimum tighten to 14 N·m (124 lb in) continue to tighten the sight gauge until correct orientation of 0 to 15 degrees is achieved from horizontal plan.

Maximum tighten to 22 N·m (195 lb in).
Tighten nut to 14N•m, rotate gauge until oriented so scale is oriented same as before removal, then tighten to 22 N•m.
Easy peasy.
 

Tree Mulcher

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Apr 15, 2023
Messages
63
Location
Central Florida
If you have not already figured this out, I will offer some guidance here. I have extensive experience with these machines but my comments here may be worth what you pad.

It is a poor design to begin with and most other brands of machines have a superior choice of fittings in this area.

First check the durometer of the O-ring you are installing. This is a 5,000 psi circuit you are working with. Not all O-rings perform at these pressures.

When tightening make sure your tools are not contacting other fittings and fooling you about the torque applied. This can easily happen on these hoses.

Locktite is your friend. Specifically, locktite 545 can be used on these threads and will stop the fittings from loosening up in operation. This product is designed to be used with hydraulics and will not destroy the hydraulic system if you get contamination of the fluid. Don't expect to find this locally. Ebay and Amazon are your friend.

You're probably already doing this. Make sure everything is spotlessly clean. One grain of sand can destroy the O-ring when reassembling. Make sure the O-ring is not rolled or pinched when re assembling.

These fittings are problematic on these machines. Debris getting into this area can and will knock the fittings loose.

If you're already working on these hoses, it is worth the effort to check the routing for the speed sensor wire. This wire can be routed in the center of the hydraulic hoses and have the bundle zip tied together so that the hoses protect the wiring and connector for the speed sensor. Speed sensors are a known issue on these machines and damage to the wiring is usually the issue. Using the hoses in this way is well worth the effort in my experience.

To the engineers that design this. I hope I never meet you in person because I will probably end up in jail. Why can't we just have JIC fitting. They just work without all this ridiculous bs with O-rings. Bobcat uses flange bolt type fitting in this area, and they are very reliable connections in this area.

Also, these hoses tend to wear they go through the frame. It is worth the effort to add some protection to make these hoses last longer. I have added a piece of split 3-inch green suction hose around the bundle of hydraulic hoses in this area. A pain to add but so is changing these hoses.

If you're running this machine in any sort of production environment, I would consider keeping spare hoses of all the hoses that go to the drive motors.

Lastly and you probably already know this be very meticulous about cleanliness when working in this area. It is easy to contaminate the system while working in this area. Failure of the drive motors is the number one hydraulic problem on these machines and the filtration is woefully inadequate to prevent a failure in general much less if you inadvertently introduce contaminates in the drive motor circuit or any other for that matter.

Good luck these machines are unreliably and poorly engineered at best in my experience. I have had multiple of these machines with warranty claims approaching or exceeding the cost of the machine itself not including downtime cost.
 
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