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Proper Towing Rig

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by DM22, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. DM22

    DM22 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    MS
    Gentlemen, Need help deciding what to do. (FYI: I have searched this site for previous information and advice, but am still a little confused, so forgive me if this subject has been beaten to death).

    We are located in south MS, and run a small dirt contracting/land clearing business. Our 2 main pieces of equipment are a JD 650H Dozer (roughly 21,000 lbs) and a JD 160LC Excavator (roughly 40,000 lbs). Currently, we hire out a local hauler to move the equipment from site to site. But as you all know it is costly and causes un-profitable downtime to get them moved from site to site. Plus, having to factor in paying for transportation cost when bidding a job sometimes is the difference in getting awarded the job or not. This post only concerns hauling the Dozer, as we would like to be able to run and gun between jobs with the Dozer. With the Excavator, we will continue to hire out the hauling.

    We currently have a 2005 F-350 Dually 4x4 Diesel Crew Cab Long Bed and a 33' (28'+5') Bourg Brand HD
    GooseNeck Trailer with Tandem Dual 10,000 lb axles with electric brakes. I wont quote and list all of the GVWR's etc. etc., because I believe the F-350 is a well known truck as is a GooseNeck Trailer and both specs have been mentioned many times in the previous post. We just want opinions on whether or not any of you experienced Truck Drivers would use this rig combination to move the Dozer around? Is it too much weight?

    More specifically, we have no problem replacing the GooseNeck to a heavier capacity GooseNeck Trailer if the general consensus is our current GooseNeck is not heavy enough. Our main question is, is the F-350 enough Truck for the job?

    Please keep in mind we are local only and only go about 100 miles max in any direction and generally on back roads, and NO interstate travel.

    We would really appreciate any and all advice or opinions. We have a competitor who is hauling the exact same Dozer with a Flatbed F-350 Single Cab Dually and same capacity Gooseneck Trailer. He says it hauls it with no problems, but I am not sure I trust his words!! And I firmly believe two wrongs don't make a right!!!

    Hope to hear back soon. Thanks.
     
  2. Mike Mc

    Mike Mc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    Occupation:
    Oilfields
    Location:
    Bakersfield, Ca
    DM, I've hauled my 17,000 dozer with an F350 all over the west coast with no problems. Of course I'm driving defensive, avoid sharp turns and sudden stops if possible. Having GOOD consistant trailer brakes can help keep you out of trouble. But if you ever run into someone and hurt or kill them and your overweight your ass is grass! You Attorney fees will far exceed the expense of hiring a local trucker. Her in California when we take the back roads the illegals aliens are terrible about pulling out in front of you. That's why I keep my trailer brakes in good shape but its a gamble. Ya you can save a few hundred hot shotting it your self but if you run into someone you'll be in the hole BIG TIME!
     
  3. DM22

    DM22 Active Member

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    Jan 14, 2013
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    Location:
    MS
    Thanks Mike. I know what you mean about "Illegal Aliens"!!! We don't have a problem here with them, just another "species" that thinks the same way!! I agree 100% about taking it easy. Currently the Truck/GooseNeck rig is used to haul farm equipment, as in a JD 7400 Tractor/Loader with implements. With that load we always take it easy and approach unfamiliar areas cautiously. Thanks for your advice.
     
  4. buckfever

    buckfever Senior Member

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    Aug 12, 2010
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    813
    Location:
    southwest pa
    I have a f-450 flatbed and a 20,000 lbs hudsen gooseneck. The most I have hauled is about 22,000 lbs and to be honest it was a little scary. Now the truck moved it ok but it just did not seem very happy. I could also be biased because i'm more used to move equipment with a lowboy tracktor.

    I would put the dozer behind it and see how it handels on a short hall. If it feels hinky at all going easy on a close move I wouldn't chance it on a long hall.
     
  5. DM22

    DM22 Active Member

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    Location:
    MS
    Buckfever, that is basically what I was thinking I would do. My guess is we will not be happy with it as is. Probably will be upgrading. HOWEVER, if upgrade it is, then we will just go up enough to handle the 160 Excavator as well. No need going half way!!! Thanks.
     
  6. Shenandoah

    Shenandoah Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2012
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    Location:
    Virginia
    DM, keep in mind your crew cab will detract from the towing capacity because you're already hauling a couple extra doors and a sofa to go with them.
     
  7. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Location:
    Andrews SC
    Keep in mind, it is 21,000 lbs of dozer, PLUS 6,000 lbs of trailer. Can you tow 27,000 lbs behind an F-350? Maybe, IF everything works right (thats a very big "if", on purpose).Can you do it legally and safely, no. Keep in mind, if you are going 35 mph and step on the brakes, and a wire connection fails, or a plug comes unplugged, or is dirty, etc. You are going to have a wreck. There is no way 8,000 lbs of truck is going to control 27,000 lbs in a panic situation. If you have to steer violently around something, your trailer is probably not going to change direction, it's just going to push your truck sideways into what ever is in front of you.
     
  8. DM22

    DM22 Active Member

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    Mitch, you must have been tapped into my nightmare dream I had last night!!! Thanks.
     
  9. PhilDirt

    PhilDirt Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Lancaster PA
    Ya gotta ask yourself, Do I feel lucky?


    bad01.jpg bad02.jpg
     
  10. JBlackwell

    JBlackwell Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Yes.

    I have towed about 17,000# payload before and that was on local roads that have no traffic. I now have a 21,000# 410J and the thought hasn't even crossed my mind to try and haul that with a pickup and gooseneck. Now I "might" consider it if it were a dual tridem gooseneck, but only locally running 50mph max. You running up to 100 miles out I would not. With all that saying my "suggestion" (and it is only a suggestion) get a big truck and lowboy trailer and be done with it. I do promise you will have less headache down the road.
     
  11. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Columbus, MS
    I use an F550 for towing goosenecks. I wouldn't shy from towing a 30klbs gross heavy spec goose. Tandem 12klb axles, the balance on the pin. My 550 is 8500lbs, 20k gross. The ball is rated to 7500lbs of pin weight.

    If I was making a habit of it, I would move the ball a foot forward or so for more weight transfer to the front axle.
     
  12. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    Post #2 from Mike sums it up best, in my opinion.

    Can you? Yes. Are you in deep trouble if things go wrong? More than you can imagine.

    That said, I have a friend who has regularly hauled 20K to 24K payloads on a Big Tex gooseneck behing a D0dge 3500. He has run near and far, and up and down some pretty steep hills as well. The truck will do it, but you are always one small mistake away from a disaster.
     
  13. Essayons

    Essayons Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    MS
    Legally, your combination is NOT enough. More specifically your GCWR, which for a new 2013 F-350 is 30,000lbs. As most everyone here has said already, you can do it, but your one mishap away from disaster financially and possibly physically. Your combination gross will probably be around 34,500lbs and that is being VERY conservative. Your best bet seems to be an upgrade to a semi so you can move both pieces of equipment (separately) and be worry free about weight legalities.
     
  14. JBGASH

    JBGASH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
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    752
    Occupation:
    Plumbing & Excavation Contractor / farmer
    Location:
    Missouri
    DM22 I would never use the rig you use for the hauling you are doing, I think you are way undersized. You are one step away from a major disaster and a lawsuit to boot. JMO
     
  15. redneckracin

    redneckracin Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Civil Engineer
    Location:
    Western PA
    I recently upgraded to a international 4700LP from a 2005 dodge ram 3500 SRW and I dont think I would ever go back except for not having 4wd in these pa winters! Except for the fuel mileage, you can hardly tell the trailer is even behind you until you hit a hill lol. You can probably find a used single axle international to pull a heavy GN and be fine with it. Even a single axle semi with air brakes would not be that expensive to buy outright.
     
  16. Dig_Texas

    Dig_Texas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Texas
    When I bought my excavator I moved up from a single axle international 4700 towing a 20 ton double tandem to a semi-lowboy combination. During hard braking my dozer (D5G) on the double tandem used to push the truck and I really had to stand on the brakes to stop. I know I would not have wanted to be driving a one ton truck in those situations.

    Lots of ambulance chasers just waiting for someone to sue. Not sure, but if you are loaded over your max GWVR, I wonder if your insurance carrier would try to deny coverage in case of an accident.

    No way I'd drive 100 miles towing a dozer with an F350....I dread 50 miles in the lowboy dodging all the people who pull out in front of you or get impatient and pass you only to slam on the brakes to make a turn.
     
  17. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino Super Moderator

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Greenskeeper/mechanic
    Location:
    Walden, NY
    I personally wouldn't use that truck for anything more than a few miles from town..I'm sure it will work,but the 05 6.0 isn't exactly the most reliable pulling truck when pushed hard....to have reliability at that gvwr I feel you'd need an egr delete,and a good going over by a reputable shop,checking the head gaskets and degas bottle for pressurization.If the head gaskets aren't perfect,they won't last long pulling that weight,head studds,and new gaskets and it'd be ready for anything.I am pretty sure the only 1 ton rated to tow that kind of load from the factory is a new 2013 dodge 3500 dually with the aisin auto and 385/850 6.7 cummins.These trucks are rated for a 30000 lb trailer and 37500 gvwr...I think you'd be DOT legal with the F350 as long as your trailer was rated for the load ,your load is distributed so the truck isn't overloaded on the rear axle, and none of your axles are overweight...
     
  18. DM22

    DM22 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    MS
    To ALL that responded!!! Thanks very much for your very wise and smart comments. I have actually awaken from this "Dream" I was in. The dream was to hopefully save some money!! Rest assured, we WILL NOT use this rig to haul the Dozer. Not worth the risk. And we will be upgrading to a suitable rig to haul both Dozer and Excavator. When that time comes, we will be back with many questions as what is best to get!! I know just enough about the Tractor part of the rig to not know enough.
     
  19. Go2ndAmend

    Go2ndAmend Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    N. California
    I've done more than a fair amount of hauling with everything from pickups to peterbuilts. IMO you are asking too much of your truck to haul that dozer safely. It is not a question of if, but when, you will not be able to stop in time. The dozer will be driving the truck. It is not a comfortable feeling. Be safe and upgrade.
     
  20. jalewis

    jalewis Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Have you thought about a tandem axle dump truck with an air braked tag? A 25 ton tag will carry both of your pieces of equipment without any issues and the dump may be more useful than a tractor and lowboy.