Pricing out a large driveway, need some advice....

[Aliate]

I just got back from a potential customers house that is really interested in removing/replacing his driveway. The driveway is 608', not including the parking area which is about 45'x24'. I figured up at 4 inches thick, the driveway will require 209 tons. I told the customer that Im going to be upfront with him about the price Im getting the asphalt at and try my best to give him a really good price.
I figure it will take me 1 - 2 days to remove the driveway using a few laborers and 2 skidsteers + triaxle. I have a lot of experience in trenching, and paving trenches, but not in driveways, Im just recently putting ads out there for residential work, so any advice about how to do this would be appreciated. The driveway has some uneven spots so I figure I will throw down item 4 in the low spots, then maybe a final 1 to 2" layer for item 4 put down with the spreader? Then rolled out.
Im not sure how long it would take to lay down the actual driveway, I dont have experience with a spreader, but I know someone who does.


So all in all, what would you guys charge for this driveway and how would you go about doing it?

Thanks

 

[Turbo21835]

You can do it for Tree Fiddy. In all seriousness, you are the one that should know what you NEED to charge to do this job. I think you are still relying too much on labor force, and not enough on machine. Personally, I would look at this job as a load the truck, drive yourself. Once drive is removed, then you need a truck driver and someone running the skid steer. The only day you will need labor help, is when you are doing the actual paving. Need a guy on the paver, a guy on the roller, screed men can double as lute men. You need an experienced crew to pave efficiently, and make money at it.

 

[diggerdave1958]

Well, Aliate how broken up is the Driveway?? if i was doing that job i would have just 1 skidsteer on the job to remove the ashalt and grade for the new driveway then i would spend some time compacting the grade, was there a drainage issue that casued the old driveway to breakup??? and i would not give u a cost as i don't know the market u are in. sorry

 

[Aliate]

Well, Aliate how broken up is the Driveway?? if i was doing that job i would have just 1 skidsteer on the job to remove the ashalt and grade for the new driveway then i would spend some time compacting the grade, was there a drainage issue that casued the old driveway to breakup??? and i would not give u a cost as i don't know the market u are in. sorry

Some parts are still intact, some parts are really bad. Parts are no longer level, I dont know what caused the driveway to break up, its in the woods and it looks like it was done thin. When you compact it, is there anything special you do? And do you try not to disturb the earth to avoid having to mess with the grade?

 

[oarwhat]

not to be a amart ass but!!!!

I think you are in way over your head. The subgrade has to be properly prepped for drainage, is there enough stone subase or is that why the old drive failed. There's alot more to it than compacting the base, renting a paver and putting it down. You have to have good rakers , a good roller operator, paver operator and screed man that all work together. Blacktop has to be rolled at the proper time edges have to be tamped without leaving marks , seams have to be raked so they don't show. Your roller operator has to know how roll without leaving lines. It's an art to do it correctly. Not saying you can't learn but I'd start with a smaller drive for sure. We screwed up a couple drives before I hired some one to show us the ropes. Sorry for the rant but everyone thinks it's easy. In reality it takes years to get really good at it.

 

[biggrader]

I'm a long way from your area and don't know your conditions but.....one tri-ax truck for all of that? 608' feet of driveway and parking area. . If you have any distance at all to get rid of the asphalt and then the bad base you had better plan on a week. or even more

 

[Aliate]

I think you are in way over your head. The subgrade has to be properly prepped for drainage, is there enough stone subase or is that why the old drive failed. There's alot more to it than compacting the base, renting a paver and putting it down. You have to have good rakers , a good roller operator, paver operator and screed man that all work together. Blacktop has to be rolled at the proper time edges have to be tamped without leaving marks , seams have to be raked so they don't show. Your roller operator has to know how roll without leaving lines. It's an art to do it correctly. Not saying you can't learn but I'd start with a smaller drive for sure. We screwed up a couple drives before I hired some one to show us the ropes. Sorry for the rant but everyone thinks it's easy. In reality it takes years to get really good at it.

Trust me I know what youre saying, I wish my first driveway could be something smaller, Im going to work something out with a local paving guy that I somewhat know and see if maybe he could help me out with the job. When you messed up the first few, was it really bad? Like did the customer see the difference? I want it to come out really nice

 

[oarwhat]

Oh yea the first ones were bad . We had only done some patching before never any thing large. The prices my dad gave were so cheap the customer couldn't argue much. The first time we used our paver the owner of the lot was watching and we didn't have a clue on how to use it properly, but we got through it. The area at the house will be the toughest , I mean a bad seam , roller mark or water puddle will stick out like a sore thumb. We all have to start some where so good luck.

 

[diggerdave1958]

Aliate, Maybe u could work something out the your paving guy, i would for sure bid the removal u can make some money on that. and maybe u can work with him on other jobs down the road, u do the removal/grading/subbase and give him the paving and in retrun he works with u on his removal jobs. just thinking or maybe i am just skinking ?? but it would not hurt to try ??? and like oarwhat said "we all have to start some where" well good luck and keep us posted as to how it goes.

 

[oarwhat]

Diggerdave I think thats a great idea. Aliate you could make some money and watch and learn how to do it. Actually that's what we did just before we stopped doing construction. We'd do all the site and prep work and have it paved and we still made a few bucks on the paver.

 

[diggerdave1958]

Tks, oarwhat, good advice about the "watch and Learn" u are never to old to learn and its something to add to the resume of work u can perform. See if u can do some of the trucking of the asphalt to the paver good way to make some money and learn how the asphalt plant operations work and the paving end too.

 

[Pecord Exc]

where is the driveway, maybe i can give you a hand

 

[Furthur]

if you want to pave it yourself, by all means. if you are interested in subbing out please let me know. be happy to price it up for you. you can even put on a triaxle if you want & buy the mix, we would just do laydown & haul if interested.

 

[CM1995]

Let me throw my $.02 in the ring. I have done a few of these type jobs and I always subbed the paving out. One of biggest driveways that I contracted 1500 +/- in length, elevation change was 40 FT or so high from the public street and this was on a 5 acre lot. I did all the grading, drainage and erosion control - subbed the paving out.

I had a relationship with my local paving company (until they got bought out by a larger company in town) and we worked together on several projects. I would get the demo, grading, drainage and sub-base work and they would get the base and pave. It worked out well for me and for them. Their specialty was paving and mine is grading. This allowed me to be a more full service contractor.

Now if you want to get into the paving end of the business then by all means go for it. Just ask yourself the hard questions of your strengths and weaknesses. You might find that there is a symbiosis you can create with another specialty contractor that will augment both of you.

Just another suggestion from a guy looking in from the outside, given the info on your background in the business so far - have you considered looking into private underground utility installation? Sewer, water, electrical, telephone, gas, drainage. There will be the different licenses involved to do this work but for instance - there may be a retired master plumber with a valid card, close to you that may still want to get out every now and then. One of the most profitable items, albeit small, on a commercial job is running the power and phone conduit from the transformer pad/pedestal to the building.:cool2

 

[Aliate]

Let me throw my $.02 in the ring. I have done a few of these type jobs and I always subbed the paving out. One of biggest driveways that I contracted 1500 +/- in length, elevation change was 40 FT or so high from the public street and this was on a 5 acre lot. I did all the grading, drainage and erosion control - subbed the paving out.

I had a relationship with my local paving company (until they got bought out by a larger company in town) and we worked together on several projects. I would get the demo, grading, drainage and sub-base work and they would get the base and pave. It worked out well for me and for them. Their specialty was paving and mine is grading. This allowed me to be a more full service contractor.

Now if you want to get into the paving end of the business then by all means go for it. Just ask yourself the hard questions of your strengths and weaknesses. You might find that there is a symbiosis you can create with another specialty contractor that will augment both of you.

Just another suggestion from a guy looking in from the outside, given the info on your background in the business so far - have you considered looking into private underground utility installation? Sewer, water, electrical, telephone, gas, drainage. There will be the different licenses involved to do this work but for instance - there may be a retired master plumber with a valid card, close to you that may still want to get out every now and then. One of the most profitable items, albeit small, on a commercial job is running the power and phone conduit from the transformer pad/pedestal to the building.:cool2

Yeah I have thought about that, I have a lot of experience running conduits/trenching. If someone asked me to do it for them I would definitely not turn it down. Im going to be advertising as a paving/excavation contractor, website is in the works. My main goal is just to move into the residential/commercial market. I appreciate the info though, subbing out the paving work is definitely something I am going to consider. I dont think there is any drainage work to be done on the job. How did you make out subbing out the paving work? It seems like tight profit margins doing the asphalt work. I do know a lot about buying the asphalt though, I dealt with it a lot doing trenches in the street, I have an asphalt salesman I deal with.

 

[CM1995]

How did you make out subbing out the paving work?

I preface this with it was almost 2 years ago and in a different market. To answer the question, not too bad. For the long driveway job, I put 10% on top of their bid. On some commercial projects I have done I put 10-15% on it. Of course times have changed and margins are a lot tighter.

 

[Aliate]

I preface this with it was almost 2 years ago and in a different market. To answer the question, not too bad. For the long driveway job, I put 10% on top of their bid. On some commercial projects I have done I put 10-15% on it. Of course times have changed and margins are a lot tighter.

Yeah its a tough decision, I want to do the whole thing myself, but I need someone who knows what they are doing on the paver/roller.