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Pre-emissions machine, or new? Brands to consider?

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by 700R, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. 700R

    700R Member

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    Sep 25, 2020
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Virginia
    :cool: Hey guys (and maybe some gals on here), I'm in the market for a skid steer. I'm tired of renting, and have a bit of work to do around the house. 5 acres in the woods, so some dirt work, rocks, tree work, stumps, landscaping, gravel driveway, and a hobby of working on trucks, so moving junkers around and their heavy parts (axles, engines, beds, etc...).
    There's a possibility of a few side-jobs through my mother's landscaping business, but I'm not factoring that into anything.

    I've been looking on and off for several months now, and I was dead-set on a pre-emissions unit with as little electronics in it as I can get...but still in the 2005-2010 range (or however new I can get that meets those wants of mine). $20,000-ish budget.
    Requirements are:
    Wheeled machine. No tracks
    Foot controls.
    2000-2500# capacity.
    Machine weight of 8,000 or less with one attachment. Grapple bucket is probably the heaviest attachment I have in mind. (I have a 10k trailer and don't want to upgrade).

    Well then I start to see dealer ads for brand new (probably left over 2019 models) New Holland L220 machines for $32k.

    First off, how are the newer NH machines from a reliability standpoint? I've read they had a lot of issues with the 200-series machines when they came out in 2012-2014...but how are they now? I'd spring for the little extra for a brand new machine, as long as I don't have to haul it to the dealer for problems every few months. Am I correct in thinking that the L220 doesn't use DEF or need to regen? That is a no-go for me, no matter what...new or used.


    Secondly, back to the older machines. Any good reliable brands come to mind over another? Is any one machine easier to maintain and work on than another? Access to engine, pump, hydraulic lines, drive motors, etc.?
    I'm leaning towards Bobcat. I've heard a lot of good from them, and most of the rental companies around here use them. It's also what I have the most experience with.
    Deere would be a close second. Cat/Case machines are almost all pilot controls, so they may be out
    Dealer support isn't much of a factor, as this would be something I would be maintaining, and doing just about every repair to myself. I know everyone says buy based on the best dealer, but I hate paying outrageous hourly service rates for someone else to change a part....reason why I've never taken a vehicle to a shop in my life either. The dealer would only be used as a source of parts if I couldn't get them online, or as a last resort if I couldn't diagnose an issue. I hope to never set foot in one...LOL :D
     
    FlatTire likes this.
  2. bad Tom

    bad Tom Well-Known Member

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    May 7, 2020
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Effingham Kansas
    I have two Case machines, 420 and 440CT. Both are early, 2005 and 2006 and have standard controls, no pilot control, no computers. Easy to work on compared to other machines. The older models are "XT's" Good machines from what I have heard.
     
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  3. phil314

    phil314 Senior Member

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    Dec 28, 2014
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    Occupation:
    Instigator of Choas
    Location:
    Otsego, Mn
    I was in the same position when I was looking at new machines. I do my own work/maintenance. For that reason, bobcat stood out over the other. They seem to be far more popular, more people using them and more knowledge about them. That means if I ever have a question, much better chance I can get an right answer and the problems & fixes are more well know.

    Given that and your other requirements, it sounds like an S185 or S250 is what you need. S250 will be over your weight but has the capacity. S185 will be under the weight but also under the capacity. Both are common in foot controls and at your price point. Should be easy enough to rent one for a day and try it.
     
    FlatTire likes this.
  4. 700R

    700R Member

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    Sep 25, 2020
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    Location:
    Virginia
    The Case 430/440/450 and XT's (70/75/80) do have my interest. 9 out of every 10 machines I look at have the pilot controls though. The ones that do have foot controls are in rough shape, or 5,000+hrs.
     
  5. 700R

    700R Member

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    Location:
    Virginia
    I think I can squeeze the S250 on my trailer, at 7,825lbs. Maybe load it a little tongue heavy :eek:
    There is the S205 and S220 out there too.
    The S185 would probably be plenty for me if I am honest with myself...all the machines I've rented have been in the 1750-1900# range. But I have the mindset that it's better to work a bigger machine easier than to run a smaller machine at capacity or more. Plus, room to grow with the bigger one!
    Thanks!
     
  6. phil314

    phil314 Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Instigator of Choas
    Location:
    Otsego, Mn
    Yeah, I mention the S185 and S250 because they are the very common models with good reputations. The S205 & S220 are much less common. Which gets back to getting answer to question. I've deal with some 'oddballs' in the past and it can be very frustrating.
     
  7. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Canada
    I think the notion that a bigger machine won't need to be worked as hard is flawed. No matter what size of skid steer you have you're going to work it to capacity and even exceed it occasionally. This is fine as long as it's not constantly overloaded and you're not abusing it.
     
  8. Muffler Bearing

    Muffler Bearing Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
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    Occupation:
    Truck Mechanic
    Location:
    Colorful Colorado
    On the topic of new machines...personally as a tech I'm a decade into fixing DEF issues, and 13 years into fixing DPF. I have more experience on common rail engines than mechanical fuel systems. So none of this stuff is the futuristic space-ship technology we once feared. I've seen the types of failures that cause these machines to come into the shop. Cracks at welds, chafed wires, failed injectors,and pumps The list isn't that different from pre- emission machines, plus you'll get about five years of emission warranty and hopefully machine warranty. Good luck!
     
  9. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Might not have warranty on a used machine.
     
  10. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Are you really sure you want foot controls? Spend a couple days on a joystick machine and I think you would forget about foot controls. I know it is hard to move away from what your familiar with, but that is a habit that you would be glad to break from once its done. Just something to consider. A lot more purchase options that way and resale on the machine is much easier as well.
     
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  11. 700R

    700R Member

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    Location:
    Virginia
    I fully understand that, and don't expect a 5-10-15 year old machine to have one.

    It's like buying a Ford Ranger or a F350...one of them is going to hold up to the work better than another. The work I have isn't going to change (within reason), so that's a constant I can plan for when looking at certain sized machines. My friend has had a Thomas T133 machine since the '90's, and I've watched it struggle on a many things in the past.
     
  12. 700R

    700R Member

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    Location:
    Virginia

    Thanks. Yes, I realize emissions has been out for a while now, but when a computer acts up and needs special software to fix...that's something I can't do at home. I can change parts, weld, wire, etc...

    After dwelling on it more, I don't think I can justify a new machine anyways...
     
  13. 700R

    700R Member

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    Location:
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    I'm 6'5" tall, so my legs do get cramped working those pedals. The next time I planned on renting a machine, I was going to ask for a joystick machine just to try out. I just don't trust them...LoL
     
  14. Txhayseed

    Txhayseed Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
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    Location:
    Texas
    I have two S175s with the standard hand and foot controls. Both with Kubotas and they are probably two of the best machines I’ve had. I do everything around here with them and do just about anything you need a skid steer to do with them. They are both 2013 year models. I bought one with 2800 hrs on it for 11k and one with “ blown” motor from the same company for 5k. Had the motor Bored over and new over sized pistons put in and overhauled for about 1200 bucks. Great thing is since it’s a kubota I got every single part with out stepping foot in a dealership and paying dealer prices. That’s another great thing about bobcats i have only ever had to order a few parts from the dealer everything else is easy to find by putting a part number into google or amazon. Filters cross into every brand out there. Almost all
    Parts stores keep them. parts manuals are free and on bobcats web site. Service manuals are online for free if you look and they are so common most mechanics can work on them with out issues.
     
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  15. tech1234

    tech1234 Member

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    Location:
    Keene NH
    if you go to pilot controls make sure its not electric over hydraulic pilots. They have NO feel!
     
    Tags likes this.
  16. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    Have spent almost 2000 hours on a couple of different T770 Bobcats. Have more *feel* than any other brand except Kubota, of which I consider it equal. Cat has the worst feeling controls, in my opinion, followed by Deere, then Case.
     
  17. tech1234

    tech1234 Member

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    Location:
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    I moved from hand/foot controls and think the Kubota pilots are the best
     
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  18. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    They definitely are as good as you can get, but the Bobcat SJCs are an equal to them.
     
  19. FlatTire

    FlatTire Member

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    Nov 13, 2020
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    Location:
    Illinois

    Excellent to hear. I currently own an old 753 with infinite hours, and I’m seriously considering moving into an S175. Nice to read people having good experiences!
     
  20. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    I would say this about the CASE EH system. They have steadily improved since going EH like most have I am sure. The B series CASE machines are excellent. They improved the software and vastly improved the ability to select your preference. You can select from CASE preselected options or build your own response and you can do it easily with the new console. I have run this series against last years BC machines. What I do like about BC is the stick throws are shorter, but the feel (which of course is subjective) is not better in my opinion. The benefit of the longer throw is it is easier to be precise I think, but I still prefer the shorter throw myself.