arielcastillo
New Member
What a fantastic work! , here in my country ( Argentina ) only we have Mercedes Benz , some Volvo's and Scania , but i love Peterbilts , when i travel to usa i take a lot of pictures of trucks on the road.
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Peterbilt 379 Flat Top lowboy project
- Thread starter Fastdirt
- Start date
I have made a pretty big move under the hood. Truck came with a 3406E 475hp 14.6 liter 6TS. Well I now have a 3406E 600HP 15.8 liter. I am going to max this one out. I have new Cat 59 injectors and a 1000 HP Cat marine cam. Also a PDI honed exhaust manifold and a PDI harmonic balancer. I have PDI building a compound turbo setup that has to be pre paid and takes 3 to 4 weeks. That should be here mid May. They are also re mapping the ECM to fit the turbos, injectors etc.. I already had my other ECM flashed as hot as it can go by one of the setup guys so it'll be interesting to swap them out and compare
It will be over 1000 HP when it hits the road. I'm really looking forward to this because I have worked my tail off to make this a reality.... but if it blows to pieces I can only blame myself. I trust myself though... it's not like I'm going to be pulling 80k plus up mountains all day anyway. My setup will only be 65K locally about 20K miles a year and pulling a gooseneck here and there for fun. I bought the motor from Richard Kerns which is the same place I bought the 18 speed from. They had several Cat motors to choose from. I was really convinced that the 6NZ was the was the one to have. Everybody raves about them. There were several 14.6L 6NZ's, 15.2L Accerts, 1LW, etc. etc. and just one 15.8L 3406E. I spent two hours there just straining my brain on whether to get that 6NZ.. I went against the grain and left with the 15.8L. Well I think the 5DS is more suiting for my truck keeping this thing unique. I've talked for hours with the guys who are internet famous with these Cat motors and they've seen it all and done it all with these Cat motors. Many dyno and real world runs.
Before I bought the 379 I knew I was going to raise the HP substantially. I did all my research and the truck had to have a 475/550 Cat. I learned then you could get those motors to build crazy power and not worry about the pistons because some of the lower HP motors have aluminum pistons compared to steel pistons. Well apparently the 6TS is only capable to around 850 safely without risking block damage. The 5DS block will handle the 1000+ HP setups like a 6NZ c15 so here I am. Once I get it running and working everyday I really want to put this other 3406E in my L9000 but I need the parts from a 3406 equipped L9000. That's one thought anyway.
Many to choose from.
Didn't miss a beat that day.
It will be over 1000 HP when it hits the road. I'm really looking forward to this because I have worked my tail off to make this a reality.... but if it blows to pieces I can only blame myself. I trust myself though... it's not like I'm going to be pulling 80k plus up mountains all day anyway. My setup will only be 65K locally about 20K miles a year and pulling a gooseneck here and there for fun. I bought the motor from Richard Kerns which is the same place I bought the 18 speed from. They had several Cat motors to choose from. I was really convinced that the 6NZ was the was the one to have. Everybody raves about them. There were several 14.6L 6NZ's, 15.2L Accerts, 1LW, etc. etc. and just one 15.8L 3406E. I spent two hours there just straining my brain on whether to get that 6NZ.. I went against the grain and left with the 15.8L. Well I think the 5DS is more suiting for my truck keeping this thing unique. I've talked for hours with the guys who are internet famous with these Cat motors and they've seen it all and done it all with these Cat motors. Many dyno and real world runs.
Before I bought the 379 I knew I was going to raise the HP substantially. I did all my research and the truck had to have a 475/550 Cat. I learned then you could get those motors to build crazy power and not worry about the pistons because some of the lower HP motors have aluminum pistons compared to steel pistons. Well apparently the 6TS is only capable to around 850 safely without risking block damage. The 5DS block will handle the 1000+ HP setups like a 6NZ c15 so here I am. Once I get it running and working everyday I really want to put this other 3406E in my L9000 but I need the parts from a 3406 equipped L9000. That's one thought anyway.
Many to choose from.
Didn't miss a beat that day.
Got the motor in safe. I've got some wheels on the truck now so I can roll it out. I'll remove the hood then possibly I'll swap engines with my excavator on a sunny day. I am probably going to get a mobile Cat mechanic to come and install the cam, injectors, balance, flywheel, etc.. I hopefully can pester him for info while he's here. I don't know exactly what to do here. The oil pump and tubes need installing. I don't know if I should mount the trans to the block and try to install it at once. He should be able to lead me in the right info. Now I just need the time to do it all and make it happen. I'm going to have to get a super heavy duty clutch now too.
lumberjack
Senior Member
Wow! That seems both amazing and nuts!
Rustedcutlery
Member
If you don't mind me asking, what's a 15.8 going for these days? And I'm assuming those are all rebuilt?
You are really doing it up nice.
I don't know, but I would ask about the marine cam. See where the torque curve is on it. As I said, I do not know, but I suspect a marine engine is designed to run at constant rpm, and may not have a torque rise as rpm drops to let you pull a grade. With enough power I am sure you will overcome that, but it may be a driveability issue. Be sure to check with the knowledgeable builders you are in contact with.
I wish I had a dyno run from my truck before it was detuned by the Cat dealer back to the factory 550 hp spec. It was a monster before. Running 126,000 gross, I now pull hills at 30 to 35 that I used to pull at 52 to 55. On the other hand, I am sure it will last longer this way, as will all the components behind the engine.
It sure was fun to drive though, as I am sure yours will be, and even more with the small loads you are going to pull. I miss my hot rod truck. It was nice to be hauling a D-8R or a Cat 330C and run the hammer lane up the big hills passing all but the empty trucks. It was set up right, and could be run hard without the egt getting out of hand.
I don't know, but I would ask about the marine cam. See where the torque curve is on it. As I said, I do not know, but I suspect a marine engine is designed to run at constant rpm, and may not have a torque rise as rpm drops to let you pull a grade. With enough power I am sure you will overcome that, but it may be a driveability issue. Be sure to check with the knowledgeable builders you are in contact with.
I wish I had a dyno run from my truck before it was detuned by the Cat dealer back to the factory 550 hp spec. It was a monster before. Running 126,000 gross, I now pull hills at 30 to 35 that I used to pull at 52 to 55. On the other hand, I am sure it will last longer this way, as will all the components behind the engine.
It sure was fun to drive though, as I am sure yours will be, and even more with the small loads you are going to pull. I miss my hot rod truck. It was nice to be hauling a D-8R or a Cat 330C and run the hammer lane up the big hills passing all but the empty trucks. It was set up right, and could be run hard without the egt getting out of hand.
CaptainAnalyzer
Well-Known Member
Amazing maybe... nuts definitely. It should work out......:dizzy
All of those pictured sell for $8500 plus $3000 core charge. The 15.8 did not come with a turbo whereas the others did. New rod and main bearings are replaced in all engines they sell and they are checked out and guaranteed for 6 months I think maybe 3 can't remember and free labor if it does need rebuild by chance. It's a good place to do business with. Cat Power said not to bring it in because even without turbo, injectors, cam, balancer and manifold included in the rebuild price that they would still charge $15,000+. They said Kerns has a good reputation and to just run it. I've seen Cat engines go from $20k to $40k rebuilt. My truck had a $28,000 Cat rebuild at one point where the owner had to get a second mortgage
Ah yes you've lived the dream. I have yet to do it. I started in a 425hp 379 right before the E model came out but that was just a tease moving a 953 here and there. I've been power starved in every job I've ever had and I've only pulled just to get the digger to the dirt. I'm not a trucker really. I've been passed by a D8 lowboy while pulling a 15ton in a 400hp Granite. I get passed by everything and it sucks because it is dangerous to be underpowered and extremely nerve racking. I went to Chattanooga Thursday for two digs and just got back late last night. I was so wound up driving that ole 9000. I just held it down to 2000 rpms maxed out at near 70 in top gear downhill but in the 50's up the big hills. It's very stressful but I shouldn't complain really. It's comfortable speed is 63 mph but a hill will kill you if you don't string it out before the hill and if you can see the hill it's too late to get in front of the boost. It'll just die out. I had to downshift a couple times. Took a long time to wind down once I got home. Well a Hendricks suspension and a tag a long doesn't help either.
Why did you detune... the story all over the internet is that Cat will flash your ECM with the NOX files and epa crap that will make your 550 struggle. I sent my original ECM off to a guy who puts the pre nox files in there with a 600hp 2050tq file. I think that's safe if that's all you do. They design motors to live at full load 95% percent of their life but yeah you're right about reliability but if you are smart about it that's different than an employee just hammering down at all times. PDI does an expensive re map but these guys can re flash to a pre nox file. He did mine much cheaper than PDI but since I have two now I want to try PDI and compare.
Those same Cat guys that I'm referring too will do your ecm with great results. They also said to just buy the cam from Cat direct because PDI is selling a stage 1 cam and a stage 2 cam but the secret is they are just the CAT 800hp marine cam and the 1000hp marine cam. Obviously Cat didn't sell truck motors over 625 but they have many 3406e/c15/c16 engines in industrial and marine applications that are up around 800 and 1000. They don't have the stress a D8 has on an engine up the Rocky's. Its not near as mountainous here as it there or even up in Tennessee and above that..Kentucky etc. It's scary in the big hills IMO. Be glad to give you their #
That's an awesome set up. Wonder how it really works. Don't hear anybody running twins but that's obviously a show truck by looks of the detail. Also hear the C18 is the same block s the C15 and C16 True twins there. I'm going compound to not have turbo lag.
Awesome picture Man if he hadn't painted the power steering reservoir and lines it would've really looked liked a tear away paint job. I've thought of doing a big rectangle glass or plexi glass panel on the hood sides with back lighting. It was just a thought. The ideas those show guys put into those 1/4mil$ rigs is truly nuts! It's almost painful to see the top show trucks and think how. Guess they really have that much money.
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CaptainAnalyzer
Well-Known Member
I agree man, the power steering lines really killed it.
Landclearer
Senior Member
I will agree with you on the nuts but that is what makes it fun! That is going to be awesome truck once you are done. I am afraid you will want to keep it in the shed and not get it dirty I look forward to all the updates on this so keep them coming. If you get it out of the shed, a good side view pic would be nice.
I look forward to all the updates on this so keep them coming. If you get it out of the shed, a good side view pic would be nice.Fastdirt
I never planned on having it reflashed. We had an injection pump issue, and made the mistake of taking it to the local Cat dealer, who we get great service from on our yellow iron, and having it worked on.
They were to repair the injection pump, run the overhead, and if I recall, we had bearings rolled in as it was at about 450K miles. When it came back, my driver asked what happened to the truck, so I went for a drive, and called the service department to find out what happened. They said that by law they had to update all ecm's on all trucks in for service or some sh--- like that. I don't remember what else they said, as I was seeing red by that time.
I never looked into putting it back, as the hired drivers could not handle it anyway. Now I am the only driver again, but the truck has too many hard miles to put the power back up safely without a lot of other work that needs done.
Now with CARB, the truck, and therefore me as sell, are outlaws anyway, so it is not getting anything but the bare minimum spent on it.
I stopped in KW to price a new compliant truck that would match specs with what I have, and it would push up close to $200K. I guess I will be an outlaw for a while.
I never planned on having it reflashed. We had an injection pump issue, and made the mistake of taking it to the local Cat dealer, who we get great service from on our yellow iron, and having it worked on.
They were to repair the injection pump, run the overhead, and if I recall, we had bearings rolled in as it was at about 450K miles. When it came back, my driver asked what happened to the truck, so I went for a drive, and called the service department to find out what happened. They said that by law they had to update all ecm's on all trucks in for service or some sh--- like that. I don't remember what else they said, as I was seeing red by that time.
I never looked into putting it back, as the hired drivers could not handle it anyway. Now I am the only driver again, but the truck has too many hard miles to put the power back up safely without a lot of other work that needs done.
Now with CARB, the truck, and therefore me as sell, are outlaws anyway, so it is not getting anything but the bare minimum spent on it.
I stopped in KW to price a new compliant truck that would match specs with what I have, and it would push up close to $200K. I guess I will be an outlaw for a while.
Jerry I guess carb is in full affect now. I thought it was 2016. What does it mean you can get a ticket..fine...shut down? What year truck do you have to have to be compliant? Guess nobody will buy your truck it in CA. That's got to be hard on you to deal with that.
Update.
Well this was a fun day. I've got the motor out. If anybody has any advice I'll take it. This is a first time doing a swap like this for me. I got the oil pan, oil pump, pickup tubes, flywheel, flywheel housing, clutch, and front motor mount off the original motor. Now I have to get all that on the other motor. They provided an oil pump but mine is a Cat that should interchange. Besides that I realize that I will need an oil pan gasket, flywheel housing gasket, already have a new rear seal. I will need a rear seal installer. I will need to torque the flywheel to spec and the housing,clutch, and everything else. Unless I just tighten by feel. I hate torque wrenches. I still have to install the cam and injectors. I think that will require some special tools. Might be a good time to get the mobile Cat mechanic here. I will at least get the gaskets tomorrow. I am ready to get this thing done. I think we made good progress today. I also don't know if I should mount the trans to the engine and install it all at once, sure seems like that would be easier on me. Not sure how the balance will work out though using the forks on the Takeuchi. Gravel drive and a skid steer LOl. The hood was not fun at all either. I have a new Eaton HD clutch but have been told these 15.8L blocks build an enormous amount of torque over 850rwhp and I'll need a custom clutch. I'll follow up on that tomorrow because I've got to get the thing back in one piece asap.
I built a stand for the hood to sit on. I also built a pallet to lift the hood. None of that worked out and I just ended up doing it like the shops do. Opened the hood up to face the grille down on a pallet covered with blankets. Also those are the 22.5 lo pro's off of the lowboy I had to throw on it. They are so small compared to tall 24.5's
I took several videos of all the stuff I unhooked. Labeled everything I could. There is a lot of stuff connected to stuff. More than I thought like air lines running to the block, the fuel pump, the fuel regulator, on and on. A lot of stuff.
Update.
Well this was a fun day. I've got the motor out. If anybody has any advice I'll take it. This is a first time doing a swap like this for me. I got the oil pan, oil pump, pickup tubes, flywheel, flywheel housing, clutch, and front motor mount off the original motor. Now I have to get all that on the other motor. They provided an oil pump but mine is a Cat that should interchange. Besides that I realize that I will need an oil pan gasket, flywheel housing gasket, already have a new rear seal. I will need a rear seal installer. I will need to torque the flywheel to spec and the housing,clutch, and everything else. Unless I just tighten by feel. I hate torque wrenches. I still have to install the cam and injectors. I think that will require some special tools. Might be a good time to get the mobile Cat mechanic here. I will at least get the gaskets tomorrow. I am ready to get this thing done. I think we made good progress today. I also don't know if I should mount the trans to the engine and install it all at once, sure seems like that would be easier on me. Not sure how the balance will work out though using the forks on the Takeuchi. Gravel drive and a skid steer LOl. The hood was not fun at all either. I have a new Eaton HD clutch but have been told these 15.8L blocks build an enormous amount of torque over 850rwhp and I'll need a custom clutch. I'll follow up on that tomorrow because I've got to get the thing back in one piece asap.
I built a stand for the hood to sit on. I also built a pallet to lift the hood. None of that worked out and I just ended up doing it like the shops do. Opened the hood up to face the grille down on a pallet covered with blankets. Also those are the 22.5 lo pro's off of the lowboy I had to throw on it. They are so small compared to tall 24.5's
I took several videos of all the stuff I unhooked. Labeled everything I could. There is a lot of stuff connected to stuff. More than I thought like air lines running to the block, the fuel pump, the fuel regulator, on and on. A lot of stuff.
big ben
Senior Member
Wow love the project and ambition to do it all !!!!!
Question why do you say you hate torque wrenches ????
Not really a whole lot of tooling required for the work listed other than rear seal installer, torque wrench, injector height gauge and feeler gauges (for a valve set).
If you are going to get Cat to do some work have the rear housing on or ready and get them to bring the seal installer and press the seal in. The cam is easy to do as it is an overhead cam, and injectors have 2 wires and a hold down bolt and they come out and opposite going back in. Ensure any fuel that goes down the injector hole into the cylinder when the injector is removed is sucked out before installing new injectors. Be very careful when installing the cam to get the timing correct, need to torque valve train and injectors. Then do a quick valve set/check with the valve train torqued back in place and set /check injector height.
P.S. - Get 6 new injector hold down bolts - Do not reuse especially with the HP mentioned
Good luck
Question why do you say you hate torque wrenches ????
Not really a whole lot of tooling required for the work listed other than rear seal installer, torque wrench, injector height gauge and feeler gauges (for a valve set).
If you are going to get Cat to do some work have the rear housing on or ready and get them to bring the seal installer and press the seal in. The cam is easy to do as it is an overhead cam, and injectors have 2 wires and a hold down bolt and they come out and opposite going back in. Ensure any fuel that goes down the injector hole into the cylinder when the injector is removed is sucked out before installing new injectors. Be very careful when installing the cam to get the timing correct, need to torque valve train and injectors. Then do a quick valve set/check with the valve train torqued back in place and set /check injector height.
P.S. - Get 6 new injector hold down bolts - Do not reuse especially with the HP mentioned
Good luck
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Thanks big ben
I'm no mechanic but I have worked on so much stuff in my life. I've done several engine swaps in my lifetime starting from a Snapper LT11 Briggs motor onto my go-cart at age 12, then a 302 into a 4runner at age 18, many 351C, 429's, etc. into old Fords. I have never done a diesel swap until now. I have gone overboard on many builds from 4x4's to dirt bikes. Way too many clutch and differential replacements too. I am tired of it but can't stop for some reason. It seems I love to fix everything up. Guess that stems from not buying newer stuff.
My experience with torque wrenches is that sometimes they seem like they click before I think they are tight. Just a personal control freak problem LOL. I think that you need the most expensive one to trust it. Like I said I am not a mechanic and give true mechanics all the respect in the world. I am amazed by the knowledge, skill, and shear determination of professional heavy diesel mechanics. I think they have priceless knowledge. The guys that I have been robbing information from on this build have seen these motors limits first hand. They have seen and done what works and what fails. Failures on dyno runs and real world runs. Going on there advise is why I'm swapping to the stronger 5DS block compared to my 6TS block. I could take it to one of those guys just a state away but since this truck was in three different shops for 13 months I can't let it out of my sight till it's done. Once it's done I'll loosen up a bit but not just yet. So I have a Cat mechanic coming here on Monday. They don't usually do field work out of the Cat truck division but I've pleaded for their help and they have made this happen. I told them about needing the injectors bolts and they agreed. They might've said seals too but I can't remember exactly. They quoted about $1000 for the day with travel. Worth it to me. I cannot set a cam or injectors and don't want to learn on my personal engine really. Nor the valve settings. Just don't have the experience. I'm excited about them coming and will watch everything he does to learn how to set valves, injectors, cam, etc.. I'll feel good about it then maybe. I just hope he doesn't get bothered by me asking a million questions.
All that which you said above about setting timing, checking valves, etc. boggles my mind because I am a seeing is doing person. Until I see it done first hand I cannot for the life of me comprehend it fully. That's why I'm not an office person and have to work with my hands. I cannot comprehend things I cannot see and feel and be instructed on at the same time. I appreciate all the advice. It just let me know how serious it is. I'm sure you could do it blind folded:notworthy
I'm no mechanic but I have worked on so much stuff in my life. I've done several engine swaps in my lifetime starting from a Snapper LT11 Briggs motor onto my go-cart at age 12, then a 302 into a 4runner at age 18, many 351C, 429's, etc. into old Fords. I have never done a diesel swap until now. I have gone overboard on many builds from 4x4's to dirt bikes. Way too many clutch and differential replacements too. I am tired of it but can't stop for some reason. It seems I love to fix everything up. Guess that stems from not buying newer stuff.
My experience with torque wrenches is that sometimes they seem like they click before I think they are tight. Just a personal control freak problem LOL. I think that you need the most expensive one to trust it. Like I said I am not a mechanic and give true mechanics all the respect in the world. I am amazed by the knowledge, skill, and shear determination of professional heavy diesel mechanics. I think they have priceless knowledge. The guys that I have been robbing information from on this build have seen these motors limits first hand. They have seen and done what works and what fails. Failures on dyno runs and real world runs. Going on there advise is why I'm swapping to the stronger 5DS block compared to my 6TS block. I could take it to one of those guys just a state away but since this truck was in three different shops for 13 months I can't let it out of my sight till it's done. Once it's done I'll loosen up a bit but not just yet. So I have a Cat mechanic coming here on Monday. They don't usually do field work out of the Cat truck division but I've pleaded for their help and they have made this happen. I told them about needing the injectors bolts and they agreed. They might've said seals too but I can't remember exactly. They quoted about $1000 for the day with travel. Worth it to me. I cannot set a cam or injectors and don't want to learn on my personal engine really. Nor the valve settings. Just don't have the experience. I'm excited about them coming and will watch everything he does to learn how to set valves, injectors, cam, etc.. I'll feel good about it then maybe. I just hope he doesn't get bothered by me asking a million questions.
All that which you said above about setting timing, checking valves, etc. boggles my mind because I am a seeing is doing person. Until I see it done first hand I cannot for the life of me comprehend it fully. That's why I'm not an office person and have to work with my hands. I cannot comprehend things I cannot see and feel and be instructed on at the same time. I appreciate all the advice. It just let me know how serious it is. I'm sure you could do it blind folded:notworthy
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I took the 3406E 5DS motor back and exchanged it for a C15 6NZ motor which requires a different flywheel housing, oil pan and ECM. That stuff is pricey so I turned my original 3406E 6TS core motor in along with the housing, oil pan and ECM in exchange for the C15 parts. Had to get a harness adapter from Cat since the ECM's are different. After having it home for a couple days I decided to go with a new 6NZ crate motor from Cat.
This was the day of the 2nd exchange. On the left is the 5DS and my 6TS on the right. The 6NZ is in the background.
Then the fourth and final motor to be here. Got the crate motor home and have to put the core back in the crate.
This is before getting started on removing everything off of the old block.
I have stripped every single part, bolt, nut, hose, etc. down to bare metal.
This was the day of the 2nd exchange. On the left is the 5DS and my 6TS on the right. The 6NZ is in the background.
Then the fourth and final motor to be here. Got the crate motor home and have to put the core back in the crate.
This is before getting started on removing everything off of the old block.
I have stripped every single part, bolt, nut, hose, etc. down to bare metal.
Maybe 200 bolts I've run on the bench wire wheel. I oil the threads before using them and will paint them after torqued down.
This is what every parts looks like after I strip it. Boring and tedious work.
Oil pan is up and will be done tomorrow. Had to expand the shop a bit too for this work.
So many parts involved in this long block swap. Glad to get the flywheel housing on. I bought a rear seal installer from Cat. I bought the Cat manual and it's been a bit of help. Once I have all the parts on I am going to mix up the paint and spray it to seal it up.
The compound turbo kit came in from PDI. It came with a few tubes, lines, and the mount. The small turbo is a Borg Warner with a wastegate. The bigger turbo is a Perkins. They have custom flanges welded on a few ends. The long block does not come with injectors but does have the cam which I'll be swapping out tomorrow and installing the new injectors.
This is what every parts looks like after I strip it. Boring and tedious work.
Oil pan is up and will be done tomorrow. Had to expand the shop a bit too for this work.
So many parts involved in this long block swap. Glad to get the flywheel housing on. I bought a rear seal installer from Cat. I bought the Cat manual and it's been a bit of help. Once I have all the parts on I am going to mix up the paint and spray it to seal it up.
The compound turbo kit came in from PDI. It came with a few tubes, lines, and the mount. The small turbo is a Borg Warner with a wastegate. The bigger turbo is a Perkins. They have custom flanges welded on a few ends. The long block does not come with injectors but does have the cam which I'll be swapping out tomorrow and installing the new injectors.
CaptainAnalyzer
Well-Known Member
Looking real good!
Rustedcutlery
Member
Maybe I missed it, but why did you decide to go the 6nz route over the 5ds?
I just didn't have a good feeling going with a used motor for this. Both are great motors though.
I set the injectors and installed the cam and pretty much every thing else here. In the middle of one last battle and that's the firewall and engine bay prep and painting.
I set the injectors and installed the cam and pretty much every thing else here. In the middle of one last battle and that's the firewall and engine bay prep and painting.