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Perkins 1104D-E44TA

Discussion in 'Excavators' started by veikolaht, May 1, 2021.

  1. veikolaht

    veikolaht Member

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    Hi, we have a car baler with Perkins 1104D-E44TA engine. Few days ago an engine stopped almost on full speed and will not start anymore. Clear is, that Perkins turbo does not rotate, few mm only. I was thinking here, can be something (some broken part) from the cylinder is stacked between impeller in the turbo house from the exhaust side?
    Of course the best is to open the turbo system and see it, just there is quite difficult to remove these nuts and bolts - can happen I break some of them, so we have ordered repair company. They said turbo has to been changed (new turbo is ordered) and this can be truth, but the engine should start also without turbo turning around, am I correct?
    I uploaded video in Dropbox, quality is not the best, but I think it helps. Here you can here these clicks when I turned impeller from the air intake side.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9jwe9oz0f96wcx/VIDEO0016.3gp?dl=0
     
  2. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    Sounds like your turbo froze up which could be from lack of oil or some contaminant. Yes the engine should start without turbo movement on almost all engines. The turbo should spin very easily with no noise. Anything other than that is a problem. I dont have the speakers hooked up on this computer so the video does me no good.
     
    mg2361 likes this.
  3. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    After watching the video, it looks like your turbo shaft may be bent.
     
    mg2361 likes this.
  4. veikolaht

    veikolaht Member

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    So you think there is nothing between impeller in the exhaust side? And of course - what it could be :) Just I thought if there is something more than turbo which need to be changed - like you confirmed my opinion, that engine should start irrespective of turbo. I do not think there is some valve/flap on the turbo exhaust side which is in closed position when turbo shaft does not spin and gasses do not go through. I recommended to this repairman who detected, that turbo did not spin, that maybe we should try to start the engine, we could for example disconnect air intake hose from the turbo outlet, but he did not want, he was sure there is turbo problem only. Usually two different faults does not appear at the same time - if there is turbo problem and we assume, that the engine should start anyway, then there must be one fault more
    The impeller on the air intake side - in the beginning it did not move so much, it came later after several attempts and I think the position where it moves now, for example from 8.00 til 9.00, in the beginning was from 9.00 til 10.00, if we visualize a clock with pointers. But here I am not sure.
     
  5. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
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    Sunny South Carolina
    The engine would be very hard to start..
    Turbo locked up.. replace.
    It’s probably due to hot shut downs.
    Engine needs to low idle for a few minutes before shutting off..
    BECAUSE once u turn the key/ pull the cable, no more oil is being pumped thru the engine and the turbo is still spinning at 30k w no oil..
     
    Paul Council likes this.
  6. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    You should check the exhaust impeller and housing. Most of the time if you drop say, and valve piece or piston ring, it ends up in the exhaust side of the turbo and thats where the damage occurs. I'de bet there is impeller damage and your turbo shaft is bent. ...........which means something went through it. It would require a cylinder head removal at best.
     
    mg2361 and Paul Council like this.
  7. veikolaht

    veikolaht Member

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    Of course repairman will dismantle the turbo, just my opinion was he should do it immediately without waiting for new turbo, just in case, there can be something more broken than turbo only and from your answer I got confirmation about that. It is problem for as if we have to wait many days without pressing cars. But we will see next week how it goes - maybe there is only turbo broken, maybe not.
    Thank you for your reply "Vetech63" and "thepumpguysc"! I will inform here later what was a problem with the engine.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ylvv532gune89ar/New car baler.mp4?dl=0
     
  8. 12ValveHyundai

    12ValveHyundai Active Member

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    This sounds strange. I wouldn't expect a seized turbo to suddenly stop an engine, it would smoke like the devil but it should still run. Is the engine still turning over fine and not making funny noises?
     
  9. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    I'm betting something came apart in one of the cylinders and went through the turbo. An oil pressure/contamination type failure usually wallows out the bearings so bad the impeller is striking the housing on the edges. .......and the cartridge assembly is loose as hell inside the housing, not to mention the engine oil that fills the muffler. I have seen turbo failures on the intake side where a broken impeller fin was pushed into a cylinder and ended up hanging a valve open, or was pressed into the top of the piston. Depending on the engine, this can stop it immediately if there isnt clearance for the crankshaft to roll over that cylinder past top dead center. This scenario is usually high $$$$ to repair.
     
    mg2361 likes this.
  10. 12ValveHyundai

    12ValveHyundai Active Member

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    I'm thinking engine damage as well. It's also possible it tossed garbage through the oiling system, chewing up the turbos centre section. Either way this sounds like more than just a turbo
     
  11. veikolaht

    veikolaht Member

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    The engine stopped itself after about 10 sec strange low frequency sound/noise on full speed and will not start anymore. First time we tried to start it again right away, starter motor could not turn the engine, crankshaft was like blocked. Second time after about a minute engine turned around but not easily. After few hours came repairman and then the engine turned over with a normal speed without "Funny Noises", just did not start. Repairman tried with silicon spray or something like that spraying it in the air intake, then from exhaust came a little bit white smoke and it seemed there was some combustion in the cylinders. Then he found stuck turbo.
     
  12. 12ValveHyundai

    12ValveHyundai Active Member

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    IMO your turbo issue is a symptom of an engine problem. I hope I end up being wrong.
     
  13. absoluteyukon

    absoluteyukon Member

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    Can you turn the engine over by hand? I would also be removing the oil filter and inspecting the media paper in the filter element to help get some clues as to the source of failure before throwing money at new engine components.
     
  14. veikolaht

    veikolaht Member

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    To "absoluteyukon" - The engine turned around with a starter motor, just it did not start.
    So repairman mounted new turbo today (this was his decision) and of course the engine still did not start. Then I asked him to show me an old turbo and we found there some metal pieces of something - they almost did not react with magnet, so maybe pieces from a piston. Now are we looking for a new used engine https://www.dieselmann.no/perkins-motorer._200.html in Norway and we hope the best.
    Thank you for your support and time! :)
     
    Vetech63 likes this.