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Painting machinery
- Thread starter Plebeian
- Start date
ScottAR
Senior Member
If no one else wants to jump in I guess I will. I work with auto/industrial paint everyday as a supplier. We sell PPG but all the major brands have pretty equal offerings these days.
As to what is best depends on your expectations. The leaf lickers have pretty much ruined all the 1k (no activator/hardner) type coatings IMO.
Nothing that lasts will pass the EPA regs. I know your on the other side of the world but I'm sure your gov. regulates environmental issues in a similar fashion.
Acrylic Alkyd or Acrylic Enamel are for fairly short term uses. 1-2 years looking good is about it exposed to UV (read sunlight) Acrylic enamel is a bit longer if catalyzed with activator/hardner.
The good stuff these days is 2k Acrylic Urethane. Coupled with a 2k primer it will last as long or longer than the original finish.
2k anything is going to be some spendy compared to 1k but the labor coins involved makes it worth using the more durable products.
This is the short version. The variety of coatings on the market makes my head spin. Any questions just ask.
As to what is best depends on your expectations. The leaf lickers have pretty much ruined all the 1k (no activator/hardner) type coatings IMO.
Nothing that lasts will pass the EPA regs. I know your on the other side of the world but I'm sure your gov. regulates environmental issues in a similar fashion.
Acrylic Alkyd or Acrylic Enamel are for fairly short term uses. 1-2 years looking good is about it exposed to UV (read sunlight) Acrylic enamel is a bit longer if catalyzed with activator/hardner.
The good stuff these days is 2k Acrylic Urethane. Coupled with a 2k primer it will last as long or longer than the original finish.
2k anything is going to be some spendy compared to 1k but the labor coins involved makes it worth using the more durable products.
This is the short version. The variety of coatings on the market makes my head spin. Any questions just ask.
Garrie Denny
Senior Member
So scottAR, would you recommend a 2 pack over a enamel with hardener,im going to do do my machine and was thinking enamel 2 pack. ?
ScottAR
Senior Member
2k urethane would be my pick for performance absolutely. Hard as bricks durable and will look great for many years.
Our largest account builds ejector type trash trailers... On the day the company rep demo'd the product, they went through all the processes of taking a trailer from raw metal to primed to finish paint job. After it dried, the rep climbed inside the trailer with a shop hammer and beat on the sidewalls... The paint did not spall off the outside. Could have knocked the factory guys over with a feather. They were so impressed they changed over all their product lines to urethane I think mostly because it cured faster than the 1k they were using could dry.
A bonus is any overspray oopsies can be "repaired/blended" while green with a mist of blending solvent saving a bit of time.
Our largest account builds ejector type trash trailers... On the day the company rep demo'd the product, they went through all the processes of taking a trailer from raw metal to primed to finish paint job. After it dried, the rep climbed inside the trailer with a shop hammer and beat on the sidewalls... The paint did not spall off the outside. Could have knocked the factory guys over with a feather. They were so impressed they changed over all their product lines to urethane I think mostly because it cured faster than the 1k they were using could dry.
A bonus is any overspray oopsies can be "repaired/blended" while green with a mist of blending solvent saving a bit of time.
OK for those of us with ZERO real experience ( I did paint a car in the early '80's). I have an old school sprayer - not a HVLP set up. Will this paint work in that sprayer or do I need a newer type? I plan on doing this outside on a calm day - will the 2K stuff work OK in those conditions?? I am assuming that this will be a flat finish.
ScottAR
Senior Member
I'm assuming your talking about a siphon feed spray gun (binks7 or similar) or an air powered pressure pot type unit. Either will work fine. It will have less transfer efficiency than an HVLP but for a non factory/production use that doesn't matter so much; just takes a little more paint.
Outside will be ok. Shaded is best as you don't want the coat of paint to skin over before the solvent "flashes" or evaporates. Wet the ground a bit around the machine to keep the dust down. Don't park anything nearby the spray area you don't want painted. the overspray of any paint will travel a bit.
Solvents come in different temp ranges so consult your salesman on what they recommend. Basicly the higher the amibent temp, the slower the evaporation of solvent is needed for a good finish. Too quick a evaporation or "flash" will skin over the top just like the direct sun above and lead to "solvent pop." The top layer has skinned over and the solvent bursts through it trying to escape. This effect looks like a bunch of tiny craters in the top coat.
Gloss, matte, or flat is determined either by activator used or an extra flattening agent added to the paint itself. Talk to your supplier about what you want. The trailers mentioned above are high gloss. They gleam in the sunshine and the factory owner likes it that way.
Before I forget... Monitor the humidity outside when your about to start. High humidity will cause most any paint to "blush" or appear cloudy. So the lower the humidity the better. Right after a rain storm is not a good time to start.
Little longer than I intended but maybe the silent masses will learn something.
Outside will be ok. Shaded is best as you don't want the coat of paint to skin over before the solvent "flashes" or evaporates. Wet the ground a bit around the machine to keep the dust down. Don't park anything nearby the spray area you don't want painted. the overspray of any paint will travel a bit.
Solvents come in different temp ranges so consult your salesman on what they recommend. Basicly the higher the amibent temp, the slower the evaporation of solvent is needed for a good finish. Too quick a evaporation or "flash" will skin over the top just like the direct sun above and lead to "solvent pop." The top layer has skinned over and the solvent bursts through it trying to escape. This effect looks like a bunch of tiny craters in the top coat.
Gloss, matte, or flat is determined either by activator used or an extra flattening agent added to the paint itself. Talk to your supplier about what you want. The trailers mentioned above are high gloss. They gleam in the sunshine and the factory owner likes it that way.
Before I forget... Monitor the humidity outside when your about to start. High humidity will cause most any paint to "blush" or appear cloudy. So the lower the humidity the better. Right after a rain storm is not a good time to start.
Little longer than I intended but maybe the silent masses will learn something.
biggrader
Well-Known Member
Little longer than I intended but maybe the silent masses will learn something.
Yup, I learned something. Thanks for the info
Yup, I learned something. Thanks for the info
old-iron-habit
Senior Member
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- Moose Lake, MN
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- Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
Great post. I learned something also.
Thanks
Thanks
RobVG
Senior Member
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- Jun 20, 2009
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- Seattle WA
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- 17 excavators and a stewpot of other stuff
Scott, does that 2k Urethane contain isocyanate?
ScottAR
Senior Member
Yep. Nearly all 2k coatings contain Iso. Assume they do unless it says so on the label. P95 respirator is the minimum accepted protection. Either full face or with goggles is preferred. The membranes of the eye are the second highest rate of chemical absorption with nose/mouth/lungs being number one.
Isocyanate and it's potential hazards is a hot button conversation all it's own. The alphabet racket (osha, epa, deq, msha etc.) says it's the spawn of the devil.
A few folks will say "no big deal don't even worry about it" as they stand there wheezing.
The fact is everyone has a different exposure tolerance but you won't know what it is until you exceed it. Exposure is cumulative. The rate a human body can cleanse itself of Iso is very slow relative to how fast it takes the chemical in. Iso is attracted to moisture like eyes and lungs. Cured product in the lungs will have effects similar to asbestos exposure.
I equate it to using a firearm. If you don't point the business end at your head, you'll likely be ok. Wear the PPE gear and avoid exposure as best you can and you'll be alright.
One extreme example of Iso exposure was Bhopal India disaster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster Again very extreme example of pure straight Iso.
Not trying to scare anyone but respect the dangers. Climbing down from the soapbox.
Isocyanate and it's potential hazards is a hot button conversation all it's own. The alphabet racket (osha, epa, deq, msha etc.) says it's the spawn of the devil.
A few folks will say "no big deal don't even worry about it" as they stand there wheezing.
The fact is everyone has a different exposure tolerance but you won't know what it is until you exceed it. Exposure is cumulative. The rate a human body can cleanse itself of Iso is very slow relative to how fast it takes the chemical in. Iso is attracted to moisture like eyes and lungs. Cured product in the lungs will have effects similar to asbestos exposure.
I equate it to using a firearm. If you don't point the business end at your head, you'll likely be ok. Wear the PPE gear and avoid exposure as best you can and you'll be alright.
One extreme example of Iso exposure was Bhopal India disaster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster Again very extreme example of pure straight Iso.
Not trying to scare anyone but respect the dangers. Climbing down from the soapbox.
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Hi sorry to hijack thread....just picking a brand new roll off bin...guy promise good quality industrial paint.
I can see cheap home owner "tremclad" paint can on ground!!!
What do I do?
Can top coat with good paint?
Or do I have sand blast cheap sh*t off and start again?
I can see cheap home owner "tremclad" paint can on ground!!!
What do I do?
Can top coat with good paint?
Or do I have sand blast cheap sh*t off and start again?
Thanks Scott - Good info. I never thought about the level of PPE I will need. Looks like I have 2 hurdles to overcome. First - I can't get out of the sun!! I live in a high desert and trees only grow along streams or next to houses where they are irrigated. The trees in the forest are mostly pines and offer little shade (plus - how do I get a compressor and generator up there). Second - Right after a rain it should be cloudy for 2-3 hours, but the humidity will be high. Normal humidity in the summer is around 10%-25% (thus all the wild fires). After a rain it might be 60%, but usually only cloudy for 2-3 hours, then the sun is out again drying everything up.
I might try to get a large blue tarp and make a canopy or come up with another way to make shade.
I might try to get a large blue tarp and make a canopy or come up with another way to make shade.
ScottAR
Senior Member
Pondo, Paint is only as good as it's foundation so good paint over cheap paint or cheap primer is high priced cheap paint. As it's a bin I suspect it won't take long to find out what you have. Likely will spall off the outsides as soon as you dump some demo lumps in.
Brandt,
A disposable P95 respirator is around $20.00. Full face ones are about $100.00. A tarp canopy would work fine, no need to go crazy making a temp structure unless you plan to paint more than one thing or want to use it for something else after.
My area is 40%-50% is considered low humidity 70-80% humidity is pretty common in the summer months so you should be fine.
Brandt,
A disposable P95 respirator is around $20.00. Full face ones are about $100.00. A tarp canopy would work fine, no need to go crazy making a temp structure unless you plan to paint more than one thing or want to use it for something else after.
My area is 40%-50% is considered low humidity 70-80% humidity is pretty common in the summer months so you should be fine.
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Nitelite
Senior Member
I have just posted the entire process that I used in successfully preparing and painting my track loader. You can find it in the track loader thread,
"Cat-951C in my sights.
"Cat-951C in my sights.
Well,I'm not a painter or anything,but this is a good thread.I tend to slap on Finning top coat Cat yellow with a brush just to keep them half tidy when they go to work.I also get into all the corroded knooks and crannies to slop the stuff on.I swear that if I ever steam clean those old D8 tanks off,they'll start leaking fuel!!!
When HVLP sprayers came out i didnt want to spend money or change my ways but after useing one it was clear to me that it saved so much paint and their was less over spray on stuff in my shop. If you are doing much i would look into one.
Nitelite
Senior Member
I have a HVLP system. I just chose the conventional gun because it was hanging in the spray room and ready to go. The air hose was laying there ready to set the regulator and start spraying. I settled on about 22 lbs of air pressure and got very little overspray using a five inch fan pattern at a distance of six to eight inches from the work.
When I finish the rest of the machine I will increase the pressure to 25 to 28 lbs and use a wider fan pattern of about eight inches. I will cut the material by 10% for ease of application. The Cat paint is a high gloss finish and works really well @ 41.00 per gallon. Dry to the touch @ 70 degrees in four hours. Handles well in 24 hours.
Bobflexner
New Member
I use cat and wagner paint sprayer, these are great things. Review here https://gorillachemical.com/best-sprayers-for-deck-stain/.