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On Road Diesel In Off Road Equipment

JCinNC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
88
Location
USA
Maybe addressed already but.....

Are there any issues to note running on road diesel (not red/pink) in off road equipment that normally has the dye in it.
 

JD955SC

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,348
Location
The South
Maybe addressed already but.....

Are there any issues to note running on road diesel (not red/pink) in off road equipment that normally has the dye in it.


No both on road and off-road are Ultra Low Sulfur because both off and on road equipment require it nowadays for the emissions systems.
 

cosmaar1

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
500
Location
Ohio
Too bad you can hardly find stations who sell off road fuel. I have one company local to me but they are only open 8-330 during the week. Can’t find another station within 50 miles that sells it.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,138
Location
washington
that sucks. Around here all the cardlock stations have it. Ironically, their prices are high enough that regular stations in a price battle will sell taxed fuel for almost the same price.
 

JCinNC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
88
Location
USA
Now begs the question:
What additive has been proven to provide current diesel with past lubricity that older machinery was designed to run on?
 

cosmaar1

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
500
Location
Ohio
that sucks. Around here all the cardlock stations have it. Ironically, their prices are high enough that regular stations in a price battle will sell taxed fuel for almost the same price.

my station doesn’t change their price often.... to be honest it’s been 2.99 for probably the past month or so. Diesel right now is 3.54, so it’s a .55 savings.
 

Ben House

Active Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
28
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
Carpenter
Now begs the question:
What additive has been proven to provide current diesel with past lubricity that older machinery was designed to run on?

I've wondered something similar since I heard that the sulfur acts as a lubrication. So is all diesel low sulfur now?
 

Coaldust

Senior Member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
3,163
Location
North of the 60
Occupation
Cargo Tanks, ULSD, RUG, Methanol, LPG
To clarify, all on-road and off-road diesel is 15ppm ultra low diesel (ULSD), including marine and locomotive. Since 12/1/2012.

There are EPA exceptions for heating oil, which can be no more that 500ppm. I might be wrong, but I don’t believe there is a single refinery, in the USA, making anything other than 15ppm ULSD.

So where does low sulfur (500 ppm) Home Heat Oil come from? Alaska gets some of it from the Singapore rack. Because, when you are on the Pacific Rim and have to barge it anyways, you can purchase it from anyplace you want to.

Including various nations with fuel ships floating around in International waters. Hustling fuel, making deals, suitcases with cash, all sorts of crazy stories you hear about when you drink with the fuel distribution manager at the airport.
 

hosspuller

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,867
Location
North Carolina
It wasn't the sulfur that lubricated the IP. The process that removes sulfur from diesel also strips the lubricating properties of diesel..
from: https://www.intertek.com/petroleum/testing/diesel-fuel/lubricity/
"Hydroprocessing removes sulfur, along with polar and aromatic compounds, which give conventional diesel fuel adequate lubricating capability. Low lubricity in diesel fuel can cause engine problems unless treated with additives. Measurement of diesel fuel lubricity characteristics monitor lubricity additives and diesel fuel quality."

Bolding mine...This means that home heating oil while very close to #2 diesel, does not have the additives required to protect the IP. Current EPA compliant diesel engines (common rail ) have much more particular fuel requirements than pre-EPA diesels.
 

Coaldust

Senior Member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
3,163
Location
North of the 60
Occupation
Cargo Tanks, ULSD, RUG, Methanol, LPG
Nothing like a good fuel thread.

Time for a Saturday night story. So, we offloaded 1 million gallons of ULSD from the Lightweight a couple years ago. Way out on the Aleutian Chain. Made the deal, sighed the contract and took delivery. Except the Dude that’s supposed to do the fuel quality checks, didn’t,...

We ended up with a water in fuel dilution that had been treated with some unidentifiable chemical that kept the water in solution. It would not stratify.

After trying multiple things, to clean it, we acquired a couple giant centrifuges and 100 gallon filter vessels, chartered flights, and rigged plumbing on Blackmer pumps on a fuel truck to kidney loop the bulk tank. Ran two crews, 24 hour coverage to filter and centrifuge one million gallons from one bulk tank to another, spending tens of thousands of dollars to make this fuel meet ASTM spec so we could sell it. I think we still had to blend it with clean fuel to make it acceptable. Spirits were low, tensions were high, yelling and crying and careers were changed when it was all said and done.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,138
Location
washington
my station doesn’t change their price often.... to be honest it’s been 2.99 for probably the past month or so. Diesel right now is 3.54, so it’s a .55 savings.
The cardlocks here in Western Washington don't give us small users much of a price break. The taxed fuel is more expensive than Safeway, for example. I had the office do some price checks for me, as there is no price on the pump or ticket.
 

Coaldust

Senior Member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
3,163
Location
North of the 60
Occupation
Cargo Tanks, ULSD, RUG, Methanol, LPG
Skyking1,

Speaking of a lonely port out in the Aleutians, I can make you a great deal today on 1OK gallons of 100LL for your aeronautical pursuits. It’s long expired, but what the heck. Someone, years ago, thought it was a good idea to stock up. In a community with a total of two reciprocal planes.
 

hosspuller

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,867
Location
North Carolina
Skyking1,

Speaking of a lonely port out in the Aleutians, I can make you a great deal today on 1OK gallons of 100LL for your aeronautical pursuits. It’s long expired, but what the heck. Someone, years ago, thought it was a good idea to stock up. In a community with a total of two reciprocal planes.

Since Av gas is leaded, the only use I see is lawn mowers and non catalyst petro engines... Long time to use 10k gallons of the stuff up on the ground.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,138
Location
washington
10K gallons I could fly aboot the Northern Lights for a while on that!
I need two prop overhauls and there's the matter of a few broken rings to take care of first.
 
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