Old JD 6059 fuel pump

[rsherril]

'79 vintage JD570A grader w/6059 engine won't start.. Mechanical fuel pump suspect as fuel from tank gets that far. Next in line after the pump is the glass fuel filter box which shows mostly empty and primer lever won't help. Turn engine over for ten seconds and no change in fuel level in glass. Electrical connections to shut off solinoid on injector pump good as I can hear it working.

Backround is after sitting for forty days and nights, went to start and it ran fine for less than ten seconds then stopped like I turned the key off. I don't want to mess with the injection pump, but am willing to crack a line fitting if necessary. The low pressure fuel pump was replaced around 25 yrs. ago so it's might be time again.

If I'm I missing something here, please tell me. Will go to town tomorrow for parts for fuel pump replacement through JD dealer.

 

[Delmer]

So fuel runs out of the line going to the transfer pump? but won't pump out of the outlet on the transfer pump? Can you blow air through the pump with compressed air? It sounds like one of the valves is stuck shut, or the intake is plugged with debris. A new pump will fix you, but this one might be fine too.

First, we have to figure out how to get fuel to the injection pump, then you'll need to bleed at least some of the injector lines by loosening the injection line at the injector, carefully with a wrench on the injector so you don't twist the fragile injector.

 

[rsherril]

Thanks Delmer, you know more about old Deeres than most so I'm listening.

The transfer pump is the second generation AIRTEX model, not rebuildable. The primer does nothing but push a little air into the glass bowl. If I'm understanding you I need to put just enough air pressure in the fuel tank to see if I can get fuel to the the injector pump. First I should see fuel filling the the glass bowl the filter is in if the tank and line are clear to that point. and fuel is moving thru the transfer pump. Then with a injector line cracked, should see fuel leaking out if the fuel is getting that far.

So my plan tomorrow is to get new batteries first as the current ones are near the end off their life . Second is to see if a replacement transfer pump is still available, if so order it along with new fuel filter. Cost was $60 in 1994 and I guess it's doubled since then. IF the transfer pump is available I wlll hold off on cracking the iinjector line but wlll try to push fuel into the filter bowl using tank pressure. I am very nervous about messing with injector pumps and lines so will hold off on that until later. I understand that there is an in line filter at the bottom of the fuel tank that could be my problem, but when I break the line at the intake to transfer pump, fuel flows that far, but dosen't go past that with the primer pump.
Will get back with results. Thank you for helping me think this out.

 

[Delmer]

If fuel runs out of the line going to the transfer pump, and keeps running out, then it's fine up to that point. If you're only getting a little air into the glass filter bowl, then I'm more sure that the intake is plugged or the valve is stuck. I'd mess around with the pump a little more, but nothing wrong with replacing it either. I'd see if a screw or small wire would pull any gunk out of the inlet to the transfer pump, then try to blow through it with compressed air, maybe take the outlet off and see what it does with the priming lever, suck a vacuum? build air pressure? pump any fuel at all?

I wouldn't try air to the tank, you already have fuel flowing to the transfer pump. Also, the fuel will not flow out of the injector pump from the primer pump, the primer pump only fills the filter, then the injection pump doesn't have to suck air.

Once you get the filter bled and full of fuel, then you will probably need to loosen the injection line(s) to get it to bleed out as it cranks, tighten them once they squirt fuel with no bubbles. Or you can start it on ether, but that's just a different way to get in trouble.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Another thing to check is that "check ball return fitting/connector" on top of the inj. pump..
IF that's clogged, it wont allow fuel into the inj. pump.. & the lift pump will become "vapor locked"..
Just unscrew the lines & fitting off the TOP of the inj. pump.. ALL THE WAY down to the alum. cover..
IF done correctly, u should be looking at a HOLE in the top cover..
NOW try the hand primer..

 

[Delmer]

You should know that the square glass filter base has two plugs that aren't used for lines, the low one is to drain water, and the high one is to bleed air. They have o rings and can be finger tight, don't use a pliers and munch them up. That is an easier way than disconnecting lines to see if you can get fuel through the transfer pump. If that fails, then you still have to take the lines off to replace the pump, so might as well try to figure out what's going on.

 

[rsherril]

I was plesantly suprised that the pump, gasket and filter were in stock and the price for all three was only $72. Up maybe 5% after 25 yrs. Now the batteries on the other hand, went up about 15% over three years.

So my plan is to install the fuel filter as it is time for that and then follow Delmers advice on the transfer pump. Last time I replaced the fuel filter, I did have difficulity getting it started and I remember using ether and that did work. Since then I have been following the various threads here concerning ether and I now consider it a dangerous option, so I'll be cracking injector lines at the injector first.
Hope it works out that I don't have to to follow thepumpguysc instructions as it will all be fine and dandy by then.
Thanks for the advice as I am not a natural mechanic, but one by necessity. Will let you know how it turns out...

 

[rsherril]

Batteries took awhile as I cleaned things up including new paint on the holders I improvised awhile back. The fuel filter and transfer pump got replaced and primed to the filter. (Rather short statement to describe five hours of my time, but no leaks and I think it was done correctly to that point).

Can't say for sure that the old transfer pump was the problem, but it primed better than before. Delmer, thanks for the info concerning how the filter works. Tech manual sez to pull the top right plug to get the air out to that point, so that's where I'll start today while the batteries are charging up.

Pumpguysc, the injection pump is a stanodyne, similar, but not the same as ROOSA pumps described in the tech manual. (Engine was rebuilt in 1990 and up graded to a exhaust turbo.) The top line into the pump is similar and I assume I can apply your advice and check for crude there. I will attempt that before cracking the injectors as it is a lot easier to get to.

Question, can I bleed the system to that point by cranking the engine a few times with the line reinstalled and top fitting cracked?

 

[DB2]

PumpguySC can comment here but what we do is crack the return line at the injection pump and then with the key on and throttle set wide open we pump the primer lever until fuel flows from there without any air bubbles. I prefer to have someone keep pumping while the line is tightened.

 

[rsherril]

Got it. No need to crank the engine. I should be able to figure out which one is the retun line by tracing the other one back to the filter. Should eliminate cracking the lines at each injector too.

 

[Delmer]

No, that all will get fuel into the injection pump. If the transfer pump is working, it should pump through that return fitting and you'll hear it spitting air into the fuel tank, then hear fuel gurgling without air spitting. If you hear that, you don't have to touch the injection pump. (I think that's how it works, but I'm not the pumpguy, if it makes those noises, then that is how it works).

You will still have air in the injection lines, because you ran it out of fuel. You'll need to crack the nuts on the injector lines at the injector on at least one. Or use ether, or hope you don't fry your battery, or maybe you got lucky somehow.

 

[rsherril]

Must have got lucky at least so far. I tried to use the primer after I loosened the air bleed on the filter and there was no resistance. A little cursing, some thinking and I decided to bump the starter as I reasoned that the engine had stopped on the high end of the cam. Diesel was coming out the bleed so I wrapped that up and went to the return line on the pump and loosened that connection for the next stage. Got fuel coming out of that, (starter bump again w/the throttle depressed). Tightened up that connection and went back to the starter with throttle about half way. Five seconds or so and it started hitting. Ten seconds and I'm smiling big.

Still don't know if the old transfer pump was the original problem or if just sitting in 90 degree temps for over forty days w/o starting was the issue. Weak batteries didn't help. I understand that running the starter without fuel going to the injector pump and beyond can cause other bigger problems, so I count myself lucky this time.

Many thanks to all for your help here. It's been over ten years since I've joined this forum and this old machine is still working.