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Oil Sampling - any success stories?

Discussion in 'Lubrication' started by Wulf, Apr 4, 2006.

  1. surfer-joe

    surfer-joe Senior Member

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    Roddyo, let me get back to you on pricing. It's been a year or two since I last enquired on sample prices, and they may have gone up since then. That 7 buck price was also for bottles only, in thousand lots.

    CM1995 is getting a pretty good price at 12 bucks from his Cat dealer. I always found better pricing at independent labs however, tho one does have to be carefull with them on quality work.
     
  2. AtlasRob

    AtlasRob Senior Member

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    Sorry CM1995, didnt think about worldwide coverage of different symbols.
    For as long as I can remember the symbol ( abbreviation) for "each" has been @ then some joker invented the internet and the world now uses @ in thier email address to denote "AT" :Banghead.
    What I should have said was " the last batch of 20 that I bought from Terex here in the UK were 8 UK pounds each" that is the sample kit including postage to the lab and returned paperwork result via post. :drinkup
     
  3. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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    Rob we are paying about the same, it costs me $12 per sample. Does the oil lab you use offer to email their results? It's a time saver.

    The symbol I was referring to was the Pound symbol, of course I have this one $$$ and thought of using this one &, but just didn't even look close enough to the UK Pound symbol.:D Although I haven't heard of using the @ to denote "each" either, you learn something new everyday.:)
     
  4. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    It is good practice to sample all components at each engine oil change, not just at the component oil change.
    Take final drives on a D-9 for instance. Oil is typically changed at 2000 hrs, but a problem may come up before then, and at every 250 interval, you can find it. I have saved a couple when they just needed bearings and seals for $5000, instead of new gears, machine work, New carriers, and a $15,000 to $20,000 bill to fix after failure.
     
  5. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    You know I've never bought into the oil sample cost saving pitch. Today I would only use oil samples while a component is in warranty and deliberately quit it when I have no chance of collecting a repair bill from someone else.

    I have also never had a sample on a final drive tell me anything I didn't already know. The junk that collects on the magnet on the plug tells me there is high iron in that final or differential and you know what, I can change the oil, put the plug back in and find the same thing in 500 hours. Everything in there is made of steel. I would be more worried if I didn't have a high iron content. The more common report says there is too much water in the oil to be able to test it.

    I've been forced to spend thousands of dollars putting a sample program together only to be able to troubleshoot my own problems with little input from the sample historys. I've also had premature catastrophic failure of components with absolutely no warning from the sample program. I've only been through one incident where a sample might have made the dealer some money. A transmission sample apparently showed antifreeze getting in. It didn't show any wear and the machine was not loosing coolant. The dealer changed the cooler anyway and I'm sure billed the job to the Cat warranty department.

    I've been to many a dealer lot looking at used equipment and checked oil only find they have all been changed. It became one of my selling points on saving a customer money. Why waste money on a sample when I could pull oil out of a new drum and get the same results.

    As far as cost, I've found I had to buy a whole lot of sample bottles and suction tube to get the price below $15 a sample. I charge customers $25 per sample when looking at machines.

    Take all this as another point of view.
     
  6. Johnsoils

    Johnsoils Site Sponsor

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    Jeff, I question if these samples were yours. Did you pull the samples and mail them, or did the dealership pull and mail them? With grinding down three cam lobes and seizing the followers; the iron level should have been significant. More than the 12 shown here. I question that they sent in your oil, or give you your results.

    I've been pulling, reading and interpreting oil samples for a major natural gas pipeline company for the past 20-years. It pays dividends and we find a lot of problems when they are in their beginning stages before they become big problems. You have to do routine analysis like others have stated in this forum and monitor the trends. In your case here with severe cam and follower failures, the iron should have been more like 100 or 200+ PPM iron. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
     
  7. Iron Horse

    Iron Horse Senior Member

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    It's good practice with a Mack too replace the cam and lifters whenever the ash tray is emptied .:p

    The only good Mack will have a Series 60 engine , 18 speed Eaton , 46-160 Rockwells and Hendrickson airbags .:rolleyes:
     
  8. Speedpup

    Speedpup Senior Member

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    I do my two vehicles a 2001 Dodge dooley and an 04 Excursion. The recommended change was 7500. I found the Excursion needed oil changes at 5,000 due to fuel contamination and the Dodge can go to 10,000 miles. If they did the same milage it is a draw but each vehicle is getting what it needs.

    Now I want to do my hydraulic oil on the machines.
     
  9. Johnsoils

    Johnsoils Site Sponsor

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    Just curious, is the Ford Excursion a gas engine or diesel? Do you do a great deal of idling the engine? Excessive idling can be a source of fuel dilution. A good injecter cleaning can also correct fuel dilution issues if the cause is due to dirty injectors (diesel or gasoline).

    Great to hear that you are using oil analysis. You have been able to establish a baseline oil change interval that fits your vehicle and driving habits. I've had oil life of 18,000-miles to 26,000-miles depending on my driving and how much idling I do. Oil analysis is the best way to accurately gauge your oil life, and keep tabs on what's going on inside the engine.
     
  10. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    We are pretty religious about sampling oil on everything from engines to hydraulics to gearboxes, I even use it for a baseline of trading stuff off, we had a tractor that was making metal in the engine and you couldin't see it and nobody knew where it was coming from but was bad enough to recommend changing every 25 hrs, we didn't like the tractor enough to fix it so we got rid of it, engine locked up within 200 hrs I'm told, a van we owned was the same story over about 50,000 miles it was making more metal and we traded, just in time, several transmissions were making metal but wasn't really visable by looking, did a tear down and several bearings were flaking, new bearings and seals, cheap fix, the biggest problem we've had is water contamination in hydraulic oil due to condensation, so many hours use and the condensation causes excessive wear we hardly ever make it to hour changes, we usually run early, no filter can take out moisture, so we sample between drains or every time we change engine oil we pull a hydraulic sample. We run primarily Kendall oil and they provide samples free if you buy their oil, so if you sample a small engine that takes a quart or a semi that takes 10 gallons doesn't matter its free or if we pull 20 hydraulic samples before changing the hydraulic oil that holds 20 gallons, we use it for prebuy analysis, if I can't sample it before I walk away. We try to get a baseline started with several samples but if they come back on a prebuy higher than I'd like to see we don't even touch it, 90% of failures or bad samples come from stuff you can't see by looking at it, if you can see the metal or if its stuck to the magnet, man you've got serious problems, we can at least expect problems and work around it. We knew my transmission was having problems on one of my dozers due to sampling and didn't have time last winter to do a teardown, ran it all year and on the last job a bearing went out, my own fault should have taken the time to put new bearings in last winter but the point is I knew it was coming, still didn't do much damage other than bearings and seals, still working on it now. If I didn't want to fix it I had two years to get it traded off before it went out. A friend of mine bought a used skidsteer one time and changed the oil when he got it home, ran it for 10 hours and changed it again, sent in a sample and the sample was so bad it said change oil 100hrs sooner, needless to say it was traded in a week, we almost always have them come back saying run 50hrs longer or 100hrs longer on a change and a lot of times we do extend drain intervals on engines accordingly, why not the oils still good and clean, not contaminated to point of causing wear. Its not rocket science just another tool to use for determining life left in equipment and whats needed for repairs in the upcoming months or years, why spend a lot of money on a piece of equipment if we want to update it anyway. Just my thoughts though
     
  11. Iron Horse

    Iron Horse Senior Member

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    This is the reason i don't buy used equipment . Ending up with someones time bomb that's been dumped onto the market .
     
  12. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    I always call the person that traded in a piece of machinery I am looking to buy and ask just such questions I always ask for repair history and oil sampling, if the previous owner can provide oil sampling the machine is worth more for value to me along with actuall hours, I've found most people are honest and will tell you what they know of the machine and what problems they have had with it, expecially if they aren't selling it directly themselves and I've had excellant luck buying used and when anyone calls and asks me why I traded I tell them the truth and have oil samples to back me up then its up to them to decide if they want to buy it or not and they shouldn't be upset with me for trading it in. I've bought a lot of machinery that needed repairs and bought it knowing that going in but it was worth it to me for the hours or need I had for that machine at the time, not everyone out there can afford to buy everything new, let alone justify it, I own over 70 machines with engines and not to mention how many things without, some I put 1000hrs per year on and some don't get an hour on in a given year depending on what we are doing that year and everything in between. With the exception of a half dozen things we purchased new all were bought used. I ask a lot of stupid questions but knock on wood I feel I at least am an informed buyer and as of yet have never had any surprises as far as unexpected repairs on the hundreds of machines and equipment I've bought over the years. Oil sampling has saved me hundreds of thousand of dollars in repairs when caught early the repairs were much less than when it was dead and totally shelled out.
     
  13. AtlasRob

    AtlasRob Senior Member

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    inflation

    Reality check :Banghead

    Rang Terex to order another batch of sample kits, sorry we dont do them anymore! :bash Cant believe that Terex UK, sorry " Terex Distribution Ltd " now, do not provide a sample service/contact for thier customers :beatsme

    Finally I managed to get a number for the original lab that was used and made the purchase direct. Purchased 15 to do axles, hubs, hyd, transmission and engine as machine is 2yrs old.
    £13 each and £1:50 to post it, before they were post paid and £8 each.
     
  14. IndReman

    IndReman New Member

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    I own a company that rebuilds components for heavy equipment. On all our transmissions we require oil samples for our warranty. You can really tell if a component is going to fail if you have three good oil samples and then the fourth one has real high metals all of a sudden. It is a lot cheaper to pull a component that is starting to show failure, then to let it fail. Once they destroy themselves your looking at a big core charge, or secondary billing from most companies.
     
  15. Wrench_one

    Wrench_one Well-Known Member

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    We sample every machine every service. It has saved us thousands of dollars in the long run. I know I can get 14000 hours out of a 988h engine if the oil is changed and sampled
    every 250 hours religiously. CAT SOS oil anaylisis is a very cost effective tool at 10$ a sample.
     
  16. MrKomatsu

    MrKomatsu Senior Member

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    KOWA also offers 10$...Oil sampleing is the best preventive maintance item anyone can have..........
     
  17. Wrench_one

    Wrench_one Well-Known Member

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    Cat sample kits cost 10 bucs a piece when you buy them and includes the oil analysis.
     
  18. AtlasRob

    AtlasRob Senior Member

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    Thats intresting. Will C@t supply other than their own I wonder.
    Will have to make a call and ask. :drinkup
     
  19. burt

    burt Member

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    oil sampleing at set intervals is the best gift you can ever give your machinery. By pully regular oil samples you can trend your specific components. No 2 components are the same, nor do they wear the same.
     
  20. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    I use Kendall oil and they provide oil sampling free to me for buying their oil from my supplier weather its one sample or 50 as long as its thier oil, on a prebuy sample where I have no idea what brand of oil was in the unit, I have it set up with my supplier that those get billed to me for 5 bucks each, contact the labs that do the sampling theres only a few that do it and I've talked to them and found out that they do it for most of the major manufacturers along with oil companies and suppliers.
    After that it didn't make me any difference what brand of machine I was looking at or who had it I just pull samples and send them in myself with my customer number on and the lab takes care of all the billing to my oil supplier all I need to include is if its a "prebuy" or a regular sample and most of the time my oil supplier covers the cost due to the volume of oil I buy, I've sent in hundreds of samples over the years and maybe spent 50 bucks on sampling. Corner your oil suppliers and demand a better deal from them provided you deal with one supplier, even if he'll pay half the cost its at least something, my supplier has done it for years and that was their sales pitch to sell oil, they all have accounts set up at discounted rates with the labs or volume rates whatever you want to call it.