Oil filter dry problem

[Tysonsk]

We recently picked up a 329D skidsteer from auction and before putting it to work I was doing a full machine service and when I pulled the oil filter off it was bone dry. It ran all day the day before with no issues and oil level is normal. Any ideas? Should I be concerned? Thanks in advance.
Tyson

 

[fast_st]

How long was it sitting and not running after being put up? Quite possible you have a filter without an anti drainback valve so it all just went back down through the pump when it was sitting.

 

[Tysonsk]

@fast_st

It was sitting for a day. The filter is horizontal on that machine so I can see how it could drain but the filter had no trace of oil in it at all. I let the filter sit upside-down for awhile after pulling it and not a drop came out

 

[Junkyard]

Cut it open and see whatcha got in there....

Correct filter for said machine?

 

[Tysonsk]

@Junkyard
Yes filter is correct.
I'm going to change oil and stick on new filter.
I'll pull it off again shortly after it is running and see if anything changes

 

[Junkyard]

It’s not uncommon for horizontal filters to drain back but there should be evidence of oil having been in it.....

 

[Birken Vogt]

My Ford 351 filter is pretty empty whenever I change it. Horizontal also.

 

[KSSS]

That doesn't seem right to me. So if the oil in the filter drains back to pan which it shouldn't I don't think, but say it does. When you check the oil the next morning after using it, the oil level would read high by whatever amount was in the filter and drained back. When you run it, the filter would fill back up and lowering the oil level by the same amount. So you assume that in the AM when you check your oil it is ok, but when you run it, it is actually low by the amount of oil contained in the filter. Also filling the oil filter on every cold start up cant be great for a long lasting engine. Am I missing something?

 

[willie59]

After they've sat for a short period of time Cummins B series will drain the filter partially and they're vertical, newer Deere engines will do the same. It's not unusual and I'm happy with it, makes it a helluva lot less messy to change the oil filter.

 

[fast_st]

Well especially in the cold, there should be a little residue I'd think, past couple weeks my oil hasn't needed a bottle, it just stands there, waiting for something. All the engine's oil flow comes out of the pump and up through the block into the filter. If your low oil pressure light is extinguished, your filter is full of oil. I'd rather have a filter with a drainback valve, its more messy but the oil galley and filter stay full.

 

[Tysonsk]

Is the drain back valve on the filter itself?

 

[Delmer]

If you look in the end of an oil filter, the middle hole is clear, usually the outer holes are blocked by rubber. That rubber ring blocking the outer holes of the oil filter is the valve.

 

[fast_st]

If you look in the end of an oil filter, the middle hole is clear, usually the outer holes are blocked by rubber. That rubber ring blocking the outer holes of the oil filter is the valve.

The other way to tell is the huge mess when you spin the filter off

 

[Tenwheeler]

That doesn't seem right to me. So if the oil in the filter drains back to pan which it shouldn't I don't think, but say it does. When you check the oil the next morning after using it, the oil level would read high by whatever amount was in the filter and drained back. When you run it, the filter would fill back up and lowering the oil level by the same amount. So you assume that in the AM when you check your oil it is ok, but when you run it, it is actually low by the amount of oil contained in the filter. Also filling the oil filter on every cold start up cant be great for a long lasting engine. Am I missing something?

I want to agree with you but my 1066 IHC forces me to disagree. Purchased it about 21 years ago and it looked like it may have ran enough to lap the earth. It uses 2 upside down spin on oil filters and seems to take forever waiting for oil pressure. Inframed it two years ago because of liner O-rings. Bearings were dated 1973.

 

[willie59]

I want to agree with you but my 1066 IHC forces me to disagree. Purchased it about 21 years ago and it looked like it may have ran enough to lap the earth. It uses 2 upside down spin on oil filters and seems to take forever waiting for oil pressure. Inframed it two years ago because of liner O-rings. Bearings were dated 1973.

I agree Tenwheeler, like I posted above I've noticed that Cummins B series and Deere 4045T engines drain the filter after they've sat for a spell and that's with OEM filters. I really don't think it's a big deal. Consider when one changes their oil, empty filter. On start up the oil light comes on but it's only for a few seconds at best and the oil light goes off indicating the engine now has oil pressure after filling the new/empty filter. It's really not enough time to cause any engine damage considering engine bearings retain a film of oil from the last time it was running, it only takes seconds to replenish that oil once the engine is started again.

 

[fast_st]

Yes indeed, with oil pumps commonly pushing 12-20 gpm that's a full gallon in 3-5 seconds. and if you only need quart to refill everything, less than a couple seconds.

 

[Dmoneyallstar]

I worked for a big oil filter brand. Even though the filter has a check valve in it that may work just fine, the hot oil (or air in a siphon effect) can drain through the the gap between the threaded plate and the gasket retention ring. There is supposed to be sealant between the threaded plate and gasket ring, but not all mfgers are good at getting it 360° covered. And/or if it's a regular black nitrile check valve, it will lose its spring after only a few long heat cycles and lose it's ability to "check" flow.

Buy a brand name filter and try to find one with a silicone check valve.

 

[Dmoneyallstar]

Ask your filter brand if they can pass "USCAR36 Section 5.6." Spec says after 24hr of 140C hot oil flow conditioning, the check valve should not leak more than 50ml of 8cSt fluid in 3hr at 600mm sump head pressure. Typically none of the imported BS can pass this, nor can a lot of the inland-US black nitrile check valves. Fram and Ford use silicone now and I think GM was moving towards a "better-than-NBR" material not too long ago.

 

[92U 3406]

I'm wondering if there's a bypass valve or something in the lubrication circuit that is stuck and allowing oil to bypass the filter completely because that engine should be long since seized if there was no oil flow.

 

[KSSS]

Ask your filter brand if they can pass "USCAR36 Section 5.6." Spec says after 24hr of 140C hot oil flow conditioning, the check valve should not leak more than 50ml of 8cSt fluid in 3hr at 600mm sump head pressure. Typically none of the imported BS can pass this, nor can a lot of the inland-US black nitrile check valves. Fram and Ford use silicone now and I think GM was moving towards a "better-than-NBR" material not too long ago.

Good to know, thanks