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Not that is Not already a Scene

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by DMiller, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    But why create MORE Hazard? A Bridge in Taiwan collapsed, I do not have a cause as yet, yet as multiple boats were caught under it this scene popped out. Side or directional off angle loading cranes, maximum down angle next to water, using a Excavator off a floating platform with questionable footing, load sitting on moveable debris that CAN and has shifted, nothing bad going on here!!

    cranes.jpg
     
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  2. redneckracin

    redneckracin Senior Member

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    Guess the guys who designed the bridge knew what they were doing too. Does taiwan conduct beheadings for negligence?
     
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  3. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    In the videos posted appears the near center support cabling snapped first then the cascade in collapse.
     
  4. redneckracin

    redneckracin Senior Member

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    Rumor has it that a hurricane/typhoon went through the area recently?
     
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  5. aighead

    aighead Well-Known Member

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    This is another fine example of why I'll never knowingly trust any Chinese construction... Yeah, I know Taiwan and China are kind of different. It's a bummer too, because new China (since the 1980s or whenever they started building cities) looks really neat. Their architecture is incredible, but I'm scared of their steel and their methods. Sometimes fast and cheap isn't good.
     
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  6. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Saw a number of Chinese components being tested at the Nuke for piping repairs on the steam side, NONE passed metallurgical testing where much did not actually fit the pedigree paperwork that came with them. Flanges, elbows, weldolets, a very FEW valves all underwent destructive testing and all failed miserably. One guy thought they were no better than recasts of the scrap we shipped to them, says a lot of their power stations there.
     
  7. aighead

    aighead Well-Known Member

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    While keeping this thread running somewhat off topic...

    The company I work for makes extremely precise printing equipment, in the good ol' US of A. We've been making them here for like 50 years now. We've tried a few times to move our production facilities to "Low cost" regions. We've spent millions of dollars building plants in China and Malaysia, spent thousands of man-hours travelling and training, and a bunch of time, money, and effort to move all the junk back here to Dayton, Ohio because the low cost regions couldn't hang with our tolerances and yields. My thought, at this point, is if there are any variances to what you are trying to manufacture you're best suited to continue building it here. The low cost regions only seem to do "well" when everything works as expected almost all the time. Our tolerances were too tight for them to ignore, which is what it seems they are good at doing. While that's not the end of the world for a lot of stuff, I could see that it would be for things like giant mega-structures or Nuke plants... Yikes.
     
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  8. check

    check Senior Member

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    Metallurgy is the weakness of nearly all Chinese steel products. Things they manufacture out of mild steel and cast iron are often OK, but anything that requires more strength, more carbon, they cannot seem to get it together. I imagine in due time they will learn to copy our technologies and develop quality control systems, but it looks like a long hard road for them, working long hours and low pay in the most dangerous and unhealthy conditions.
    As to the OP, perhaps they are not born with enough aptitude for the obvious laws of physics, which are right there before their eyes.
     
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  9. aighead

    aighead Well-Known Member

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    check, your point is interesting. I wonder if it's something to do with them just coming into these technologies (for lack of better words) within the recent past? We've been making strong steel for a long time here, maybe they are just slowly catching up?
     
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  10. check

    check Senior Member

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    We invented and developed these technologies, they merely copied them. They had immediate access to the materials, tooling and procedures, yet still insist on doing things the cheap quality way.
    The reason I say they had immediate access is because American and European companies went over there and set up shop. How long should it take?
     
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  11. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I don't know about finished products but for raw steel China has some of the best steel in the world. China accounted for 49.2% of world steel production in 2017. Don't remember the name of the company but read an article that stated the steel from a China mill was world class and among the highest quality steel in the world.

    Here's a more recent list of steel producing countries. China is double of 2nd place. Catching up? Not so much. China's steel production is almost 2000% more than US steel production. It has been stated many times that China can have cheap mass produced stuff as well as the highest quality in the world. Steel is no exception. I get people want everything homegrown but get some proof before knocking something just because it's from China.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  12. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    China CAN make world class steel, or nearly anything else. They still don't seem to want to though. Maybe some of the comments are based on experience from 5 or more years ago and don't apply anymore. Most of us remember when "made in Japan" was what you saw on cheap knives and hammers in the surplus store, at that time Japan was producing better cars etc. than U.S. but it hadn't trickled down to the cheap manufacturers. Don't forget, it was only in the 60's that Mao ordered increased steel production and the philosophy they tried was backyard steel mills, chop up all your furniture, round up anything to use for scrap and melt it down, turned out the steel produced was less useful than the scrap that went in.

    I wonder how much a picture based written language holds back progress in China. It sure seems like Germanic cultures have thrived in technical arenas even compared to southern European Romance cultures. I'm sure they have ways to write technical manuals, but if the translations are any indication, it may be that technical writing and understanding is a major obstacle, and most factories' quality control is strictly oral communication.
     
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  13. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    Steel has to meet strict international standards with respect to quality control and what it is being purchased for. Finished goods depends on the actual product what standards are required. I'm sure there are translators that can produce as good of technical manuals as anywhere. If it's manuals for putting furniture together maybe not the best. They couldn't sell as much steel as the entire rest of the world combined if it was all garbage steel.
     
  14. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Have to stand by what was explained to me at the nuke
    Metallurgy did not match the paperwork sent with their supplied materials
     
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  15. check

    check Senior Member

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    In manufacturing, like any business, the objective is to reap the highest profits. Short cuts are made where customers don't see them. Metallurgy is unseen. If the Chinese have good steel and they don't use the right steel where it's needed, does this not suggest malice?
    It's much cheaper to produce machined parts out of mild steel than say 4140, especially when the tolerances are stretched.
    The American companies that developed all the products that are now made in China built quality into their products for the long term and had reputations we could trust. Bankers generously financed the globalists who went to China and had copies made of American products, giving away technologies we and our ancestors sweated over for decades. The products looked just like the American counterparts and were sold for a small fraction of the American counterpart. It doesn't matter if it's Warn winches or Master locks, these American companies were forced out of business and had to sell their names to the globalists. Now these names are merely decals to paste on cheap Chinese products.
     
  16. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    How many years ago was this? Standards have improved drastically over the years. China has some of the most modern steel mills in the world. A lot of American steel mills were closed because they were old technology and big polluters.

    There used to be cheap copies of things made in China. Now a lot of the original items are made in China but the price hasn't dropped at all. I'm sure a lot of people would still buy N. American made products if they were available. Companies getting greedy and getting their products made cheaper in China so they make more profit is a big part of the problem. My pillow has sold over 40 million pillows made in USA. I would bet they could make a lot more profit having them made in China but they they're not exactly hurting. I know a lot people that would buy Vice Grips made in US even if they were more money but the ones from China are the same price as the US ones they replaced. Another thing that I think is troubling is that a lot of companies are being bought up by large organizations that have little regard for the workers or history of the company. It almost a monopoly on some products. It's more about making profits to keep the share holders happy than having any concern for the workers or the history of the company.
     
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  17. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Two years and Not in the Nuke sensitive but our steam side, was to be Chromoly alloy Carbon Steel, the alloy was inconsistent as well lower percentage than that shown in their Pedigree Reports.
     
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  18. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    High Tech quality assured, is a bit crude for that:


     
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  19. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Our problems were in that flanges similar to these appearing well made were full of Inclusion materials that showed in x-ray scans, then as were tested by grinding or small sections of samples cut away were found less than in spec.
     
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  20. colson04

    colson04 Senior Member

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    Years ago I was a quality engineer for an engine manufacturer. We had a batch of engines failing longevity testing in the lab and getting returns to dealers for premature ring failure. To make a really complicated story short, the pressed in liners were the wrong grade of cast iron supplied by a large Chinese foundry that cast cylinder liners for a lot of different engine companies. They had different grades depending on their clients specs. The line that cast ours was down due to an unplanned outage, so to make delivery, they just used a different lines grade for the pour and shipped them. Never said a word and tried to deny everything until the law suits started. We ended up with an entire warehouse full of assembled engines that had junk liners pressed in that we couldn't sell. When I left, they were still locked up debating on how to salvage them.
     
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