1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

nitrogen pressure in breaker

Discussion in 'Demolition' started by oceanobob, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Ordered the special valve and gage to check the nitrogen pressure in the concrete breaker. Said breaker is made by Arrowhead. The operators manual doesnt really provide a frequency or schedule for the gas pressure check. Any suggestions on how often to expect to do this? Any hints about nitrogen bottle size - small and portable, or larger for the shop?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,931
    Occupation:
    Mechanic
    Location:
    Will county Illinois
    You should only have to check your gas charge annually.
    Other than that you would just check it when they hit became weak.
    I would not get a nitrogen cylinder until you need it and then I will get the small one since you're not going to be doing this repair very often. It doesn't make sense to pay rent on a bottle you might use once every two to three years
     
  3. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Got the gage and the adapter and the charging hose and rented a 60 cubic foot nitrogen bottle.
    Checked the press and it was ok, but then when I was removing the 'rig' it was leaking although the remote was raised.....bit of confusion for sure. Carefully pushed the rig onto the port with the ferrule nut held away and shunuff it was initially pushing on the valve stem. Gave up the pressure and removed the valve assembly - maybe there was a tolerance issue but I had to shorten the valve stem about 0.015". Used a field lathe. Cleaned up and put together all parts and charged it up. Barely crack that N2 bottle as this is a small volume process. Noticed there was a tiny tiny leak so I had to use delicate ops to balance ... being in the field had no soap to check setup etc. Checked the valve stem was closed - all is well. Bottle is on a monthly so will check again in a month or so... maybe I will order a replacement valve assembly.
     
    Wytruckwrench and bccat like this.
  4. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Still waiting for parts price for my new valve, hope it solves the match up to the new pressure gage rig.
     
  5. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Ordered the new valve (it was around OneHun). It just came this week: test fitted it to the charging rig and daresay there aint much difference in this one compared to the older one, other than this one has the new orings. May have to mod the new valve and shorten the stem length same as the other one.
     
  6. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Contacted mfg and they seem to be interested in helping me figure this one out. MTF (more to follow).
     
  7. davejo

    davejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    va
    Here is a dumb question. My nitrogen tank is empty but I have argon for a tig welder. any reasons not to recharge a breaker accumulator with argon instead of nitrogen?

    Also, the schrader valve that holds the nitrogen in the breaker doesn't have a spring to hold it shut. I'm assuming that the pressure inside blows the valve shut (when you disconnect your nitrogen source) and keeps it sealed until you release it deliberately.
     
  8. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,931
    Occupation:
    Mechanic
    Location:
    Will county Illinois
    Sounds like you need a service valve. The service tool should mechanically depress the needle and it should close as you unscrew. Now you have a good idea of where your gas went.
    I dont know the properties of argon/stargon etc. I do know that nitrogen is the most stable inert gas available. That's why it's used so much, it doesn't care about temperature, it remains constant.
     
  9. rondig

    rondig Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    481
    Occupation:
    excavation
    Location:
    fort macleod alberta
    Nitogen is a coolant also....argon is not.
     
  10. davejo

    davejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    va
    further investigation leads me to think that argon is ok in this application unless it is more easy for it to leak past seals due to its molecular size? The gas at the top of the breaker is there to act as an air spring for the piston inside to bounce up against. (i think)

    http://blog.parker.com/argon-or-nitrogen-which-is-best-for-your-application

    I put 350 psi argon in the hammer this morning and it seems to hit much more aggressively now than it did with the 100 psi nitrogen charge i squeezed out of my depleted nitrogen tank yesterday.
     
  11. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Az
    According to that article argon is 40 percent heavier than nitrogen I wonder what happens when it reaches temperatures of 150 to 175 degrees in a closed space like a hammer especially when the piston compresses the gas