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New to me

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
The problem came back. I'll say when the boom just falls I use all the hydraulic flow to overcome the boom falling, there is nothing left for other functions.
The problem is some of the time. I believe it is worse when hot oil, but sometimes it digs fine hot. Sometimes It does it cold.

I got a truck/heavy equipment mechanic involved. He was convinced it was a "port relief valve. Took it apart, cleaned & adjusted it, it worked fine a few hours. Testing it I blew a curl hose. Repaired it, made it home. I let it sit 90 minutes, and when I tried it cool it settled quickly, probably 30 seconds to the ground. Five minutes later, it was fine.

This machine raises the boom fast, then stops short of latch position. Last little bit is slow cushioning the latching. When it does this that slow raising won't work.

I don't think there was any debris in the valve seat. Weak spring?
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,438
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
Intermittent and at any period of time cold hot or otherwise is a control relief or seals in a cylinder overload bypass circuit.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
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Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
Getting a bit frustrated. John Deere doesn't offer the port relief valve I need. I found a whole backhoe valve used $700.
It'd be the only sure thing, but used parts don't tend to be serviceable. I have a John Deere part number AT151814. Every effort to track it pops up a different part. No one knows whether it'd interchangeable or not.

I believe this is the cylinder overload bypass circuit.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,438
Location
Hermann, Missouri
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Cheap "old" Geezer
Take it to a reputable Hydraulics shop, most of these are built by outside source companies and they should be able to match out.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
I pay my bills immediately. Locally, I can't find a hydraulic shop able to consider my problem. Here, there are 6 companies who fill hydraulic shops capacity. If there is ever a pause in work load, they will think about me. Until then, they leave my stuff outdoors to rust with no projections as to when they can start.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,343
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
I had loader that acted similar to your boom once, Willie.
After a lot of frustration I found that some dummy in the past had the control valve apart and left out a tiny spring.
I looked and looked at the parts book and, what I had on my workbench before I saw it was missing.
New spring in it and the loader was perfect.
 

motoOzarks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
110
Location
southwest Missouri ozarks
Occupation
self employed
I'll keep a close eye. The filter came without an O ring. Nortrax (the only John Deere dealer has to approve me as a customer, no word when, before I can order parts. Ordered the O ring from a less exclusive aftermarket supplier. Should see it Tuesday.

What does "approve me as a customer" mean?
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
What does "approve me as a customer" mean?

Not sure I know. Nortrax, (John Deere's dealer network) has a website you can look up parts & order online. I tried the website ordering, got a notice they had to approve me as a customer before I could order. They would notify me by Email.
Never did hear from them. It was after hours at the dealer, I couldn't call.

As the process evolved, I needed other parts. Calling Nortrax has not yielded any parts. Anything I need is NLA.
 

NH575E

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
1,183
Location
North, FL
Occupation
Retired Machinist
JD's AG parts site doesn't work for anything other than looking up part numbers. It use to show stock and prices if you had your dealer selected but doesn't even do that now. Before when it showed stock and prices I tried to pay for something online for dealer pickup and it wouldn't let me check out. It still allows me to put stuff in a cart but no stock or prices given and checkout just gives an error.
 

NH575E

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
1,183
Location
North, FL
Occupation
Retired Machinist
1993? John Deere 410C. I've always loved the control of a John Deere hoe. Wasn't seriously considering a purchase until today an opportunity came to me.
I trucked this machine two years ago when it was bought by a friend. He wanted out today. I thought faster than my brain should, made a low ball offer, he accepted.

I'll get pictures tomorrow.

Everything works, but I don't believe it has seen a grease gun this century.

I love my Case 580K but love a little less the jumpy backhoe.

Did your "friend" tell you about these issues?
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Did your "friend" tell you about these issues?
That friendship is fading fast. More my son's friend than mine. I say he couldn't help knowing. My son says he doesn't think he used it enough to know.
In truth, I used it to dig a hole the size of a grave with no evidence of a problem.
 

JWeir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
massachusetts
Sounds frustrating Willie. Hopefully it is something simple you can figure out. The place I used to look up all my Case parts at lost their factory dealership and shut down their parts look up feature...was a great place to search for other views of the machine beyond the parts manuals I have. At least you're working on it know and not in January!
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I bought my first Case machine 16 years ago. My Case dealer is an incredible resource! Never needed a part I didn't receive in three days or less. Town Line in Plainfield NH is the best!

John Deere says "no, this part is NLA."
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Update;
I took two Port Relief valves out this evening. Not a lot going on. If I get it, a needle in a small port is pressed by a spring. When pressure reaches enough to lift the needle from its seat oil floods the space at the head of a very small piston, overcoming the spring that holds it against a seat.
The needle I mentioned doesn't have a conical seat, only a hole in flat. I think wear, or other miss fit, The needle doesn't always find the hole. Four of eight port relief valves are identical, with the boom lift tightened more. This was tight as it could go. I'd guess it had been attempted before under different ownership.

Seth & I switched reliefs loosening the new crowd out to where the old was, & loosening the new boom just a bit.

Now the boom stays up forever, occasionally the "crowd out" sags, but only a cycle or two.

I'm on the right track. I will order a new crowd relief. I believe they are available. I don't understand why John Deere won't say "use the other relief valve, but turn it up." They could have saved me a lot of trouble.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
Next question:
Where do I buy weldable cutting edge for a backhoe bucket. This one looks like a Danby woman. Teeth are missing. Shanks with teeth are bolted & worn out. Shanks without teeth are worn to nubs. Cutting edge is cupped & worn pretty deep between teeth.

My Case has a Hensley edge with 5 tooth shanks preformed on it. I explored that option. Cost made it not an option.

I've heard Essco offers something similar.
 

NH575E

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Joined
Dec 30, 2015
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1,183
Location
North, FL
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Retired Machinist
Next question:
Where do I buy weldable cutting edge for a backhoe bucket. This one looks like a Danby woman. Teeth are missing. Shanks with teeth are bolted & worn out. Shanks without teeth are worn to nubs. Cutting edge is cupped & worn pretty deep between teeth.

My Case has a Hensley edge with 5 tooth shanks preformed on it. I explored that option. Cost made it not an option.

I've heard Essco offers something similar.
Not sure on where to get the cutting edge but I can highly recommend getting some single point tiger teeth. I bought mine from a CAT dealer and they are holding up great. These babies will rip some roots.
tiger-teeth.jpg

I'm not sure if these eBay teeth are the same quality as my factory CAT teeth but they may be worth a try. Mine cost $100 just for the teeth and retainers without the shanks. EDIT: These folks have some edges also. If you don't see what you need you might try messaging them. Their shipping is kind of high so watch for that too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CAT-Style-J200-Backhoe-Bucket-Shanks-1-Lip-Rock-Teeth-1U-3202TL-119-3204/261889643608?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Last edited:

petepilot

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
2,167
Location
central shenandoah valley va,
Not sure on where to get the cutting edge but I can highly recommend getting some single point tiger teeth. I bought mine from a CAT dealer and they are holding up great. These babies will rip some roots.
View attachment 220440

I'm not sure if these eBay teeth are the same quality as my factory CAT teeth but they may be worth a try. Mine cost $100 just for the teeth and retainers without the shanks. EDIT: These folks have some edges also. If you don't see what you need you might try messaging them. Their shipping is kind of high so watch for that too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CAT-Style-J200-Backhoe-Bucket-Shanks-1-Lip-Rock-Teeth-1U-3202TL-119-3204/261889643608?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
evil looking
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,041
Location
Mount Tabor VT
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Electrician
Not sure they'd last where I live.


Teeth.jpg

These have 100 hours on them & it isn't even the bucket I use for rocks & trees. The 12" I rebuilt last year is better suited for rocks, and even logs.

Digging stump in sandy soil that'd be sweet!
Also, where I can, I take out the stump when I take the tree. 16" & smaller, drive those teeth into the trunk. push up. Bigger trees I tear some roots out on one side first. I've taken 4' diameter pines that way.
 
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