New septic flooded

[tuney443]

Bigdan--have you tried talking to this engineer yet? I would most definitely remind him if he doesn't seem forthcoming to pay for the curtain drain you should probably install now that you've been talking to a lawyer for a possible lawsuit.This is pure,unadultrated BS. By me,any uphill slope from the leaching area usually gets a curtain drain; after the deep test holes are dug,if ground water is evident,it most definitely would require a drain.Has the BOH been notified of the situation?They might be partially responsible here too if you know what I mean.

 

[Willis Bushogin]

Septic repair

I have a situation regarding a septic I installed for a homeowner. The septic was engineered and was hired by me. The problem is, the leach field is getting flooded by ground water and or run off from the hill just above the system. There is a swale to divert runoff from the hill but not enough I guess. What are my options on this matter?

I dont want to start a war about all this, but Ive been in business a long time and I have learned some things the hard way:Banghead Here are some good advise, take it or leave it.
1. Its been almost 2 months, since you posted the need for help, If I were the customer, I would not be happy. I would get some engineer to give you some plans to fix this and go do it. Keep the customer out of the "whos to blame thingee" they dont need to hear this. They hired you to do this and it wasnt done correctly ( engineer messed up) Its up to you, to make it right, if the customer gets mad enough, he will hire another installer, to fix the problem and send you the bill (you dont want that)
2. Dont even think about blaming the Heath Dept, "they never make mistakes and are never the blame" dont believe me, ask them. You will never win with them, trying to place the blame. A friend of mine tried to buck the HD, he LOST, then he lost many other times, on other inspections. If you try to buck them, your system will be 110% perfect from then on, or it will fail. NEVER, NEVER try to buck the HD, it will not be pretty.
3. I know, its hard to bite the bullet and pay for this out of pocket. We really dont make that much, out of a regular system, so its hard to dig in your pocket and pay for it, but sometimes we have to do it, for our reputation. It will make you money down the road and its hard to dig in now.

Bottom line, go get a engineer to give you a repair plan, install the repair and then worry about trying to get money out of the engineer, this may take time and the customer is getting madder all the time and if someone reports the failing septic system (they do report these things) to the HD, then they will get involved big time and you will not win.

Just wondered, what has been going on, with the customer and engineer for 2 months. What is the customer saying about all this? Whats the engineer saying about this?

All this advise is given in a, "trying to help a fellow installer way" only

Good luck

 

[tuney443]

2. Dont even think about blaming the Heath Dept, "they never make mistakes and are never the blame" dont believe me, ask them. You will never win with them, trying to place the blame. A friend of mine tried to buck the HD, he LOST, then he lost many other times, on other inspections. If you try to buck them, your system will be 110% perfect from then on, or it will fail. NEVER, NEVER try to buck the HD, it will not be pretty.

Willis--We must have different types of health dept's.The one by me is nothing basically more than a bunch of ''engineers'',and I use that term EXTREMELY loosely who used to work for our areas largest engineering firm.Yes,they were fired for incompetence and are basically rejects.I don't mean to go off-topic here but I am constantly pointing out things to them and I usually get my way.Case in point was a woman inspector{who lost her job at daddy's eng.firm,a different one} who didn't like my having a 90* elbow coming into my D box.I pointed out to her this is just gray water and the outlets in the D box had 90*s--what's the diff? She said no,the code book doesn't allow it--OK,so after 34 years of hundreds of systems and BOH approvals,I'm now in violation.So I take 2 45*s,stick them end to end,put it in,she loves it!!!! How nice--now I'm in complianceIf I see something I disagree with I go straight to the top engineer in the BOH--he's great,knows his stuff and feels the same about me--he'll usually back me up.

 

[JDecker]

Not sure but in upstate ny we had about 14" of frost and just got ride of most of it so i am thinking it would have been some what hard to throw a drain in. and that cold wheather might have slowed the flooding down a little so they could use there septic. Not sure if that is the case just my 2 cents

 

[greywynd]

can anyone point me to s sketch of a curtain drain? I suspect i know what everyone's talking about, but want to make sure....or, I'm out in left field....and have no clue.

 

[JDecker]

like french drain tile that runs on a uphill side of a leach field filled with stone and day lighted

 

[tuney443]

can anyone point me to s sketch of a curtain drain? I suspect i know what everyone's talking about, but want to make sure....or, I'm out in left field....and have no clue.

I can't sketch for crap and I'm basically computer illiterate so I can't scan some CD pics either.So here it is---It's basically the opposite of a leaching system where you have the majority of stone below the 4'' pipe.In a curtain drain,it is considered a'' collection'' type system in that the majority of stone is above your 4'' or 6'' perforated pipe.You are collecting the water,using the stone as the medium to channel it in the pipe and bringing it to daylite.It is called ''curtain'' because you are intercepting the water BEFORE it reaches a house,pool,wall,septic system,etc.It is paramount that the invert on the drain is lower than what you are trying to protect to insure you are intercepting all the water.It's really very simple--justhave to pay attention to detail.

 

[greywynd]

I can't sketch for crap and I'm basically computer illiterate so I can't scan some CD pics either.So here it is---It's basically the opposite of a leaching system where you have the majority of stone below the 4'' pipe.In a curtain drain,it is considered a'' collection'' type system in that the majority of stone is above your 4'' or 6'' perforated pipe.You are collecting the water,using the stone as the medium to channel it in the pipe and bringing it to daylite.It is called ''curtain'' because you are intercepting the water BEFORE it reaches a house,pool,wall,septic system,etc.It is paramount that the invert on the drain is lower than what you are trying to protect to insure you are intercepting all the water.It's really very simple--justhave to pay attention to detail.

So it would be similar to a french drain then I think. Basically, cut your trench/swale, line with a barrier cloth (can't think of the name for the right type for this right now) a little stone, a drain tile (typically a 4" o-pipe) and cover with more stone. Catches all the run off coming down the hill, and prevents it from flooding the area/ground where (in this case) the field is. Got it. Guess I've done a few and didn't realize it.

 

[Willis Bushogin]

Septic repair

2. Dont even think about blaming the Heath Dept, "they never make mistakes and are never the blame" dont believe me, ask them. You will never win with them, trying to place the blame. A friend of mine tried to buck the HD, he LOST, then he lost many other times, on other inspections. If you try to buck them, your system will be 110% perfect from then on, or it will fail. NEVER, NEVER try to buck the HD, it will not be pretty.

Willis--We must have different types of health dept's.The one by me is nothing basically more than a bunch of ''engineers'',and I use that term EXTREMELY loosely who used to work for our areas largest engineering firm.Yes,they were fired for incompetence and are basically rejects.I don't mean to go off-topic here but I am constantly pointing out things to them and I usually get my way.Case in point was a woman inspector{who lost her job at daddy's eng.firm,a different one} who didn't like my having a 90* elbow coming into my D box.I pointed out to her this is just gray water and the outlets in the D box had 90*s--what's the diff? She said no,the code book doesn't allow it--OK,so after 34 years of hundreds of systems and BOH approvals,I'm now in violation.So I take 2 45*s,stick them end to end,put it in,she loves it!!!! How nice--now I'm in complianceIf I see something I disagree with I go straight to the top engineer in the BOH--he's great,knows his stuff and feels the same about me--he'll usually back me up.

Guess it is a little different whereI am. I dont stir the pot, so to speak, it will come back to us (my area) I also have to point out, different things wrong with their permit, but I do it in a way that doesnt make them look bad. I have to play the game, or pay the price later.
Good Luck, thats all

 

[tuney443]

So it would be similar to a french drain then I think. Basically, cut your trench/swale, line with a barrier cloth (can't think of the name for the right type for this right now) a little stone, a drain tile (typically a 4" o-pipe) and cover with more stone. Catches all the run off coming down the hill, and prevents it from flooding the area/ground where (in this case) the field is. Got it. Guess I've done a few and didn't realize it.

It is a french drain-no different. I just don't use that terminollogy.It sounds to me like something weekend warriors use.By me,on any blueprints drawn up by an engineer,it's always a curtain drain. Geotextile cloth is what you were trying to remember.

 

[digger242j]

a little stone, a drain tile (typically a 4" o-pipe) and cover with more stone.

Just so nobody interprets that as "cover with a little more stone"--A curtain drain has the stone going all the way to the surface. I've always referred to the drain around the perimeter of a building foundation as a "french drain", but in that case, the stone is only covering the pipe at the base of the wall, because that's where water would usually find its way into the basement.

A curtain drain is, as the name implies, similar to a curtain, that covers a window from top to bottom. Be sure you understand the distinction.

I googled "curtain drain detail", and this was among the first page of results:

http://www.greenhomebuilders.com/septicpage.htm

Happily, it's concerned with just the sort of septic field situation being discussed here.

 

[BIGDAN315]

To all who is wondering, I am going with a french drain as soon as weather allows. It is way to wet right now to do anything. The engineer has agreed to pay for part of the costs and I will probably eat the rest. Thanks to all for your help...:notworthy