New replacement engines.......what a mess of paperwork.

[Vetech63]

To make a long story short as possible, I am trying to buy a replacement engine for a customer of mine. It would be a new Cummins QSB 6.7 for a Pettibone Carylift. I don't guess this is easy to do any longer due to the EPA. I have had to fill out a RER for Cummins here (An engine replacement worksheet which is no big deal) with my local distributor and now they have sent me an affidavit to fill out. It says that the engine will be destroyed beyond rebuild. This is a 2013 Tier 3 engine. The replacement in NEW is Also a Tier 3.
I was told that I didn't have to fill out the affidavit if I removed the engine data plate from the engine and sent a pic of it removed.

My issue is this is a rebuildable engine and has good parts on it. I understand what the EPA is doing, but LORD it seems to be such a waste!! I have another one of these engines I pulled a few years ago and was hoping to use this one for parts.

Has anyone else run into this recently? It seems that this is getting ridiculous to me.

 

[dieseldog5.9]

Interesting, was quoting a kubota engine in a forklift last week, they are charging a core charge but want the engine distroyed with a hole in the block, thought that was odd.

 

[JD955SC]

That’s the government for you

it really pissed me off with cash for clunkers too, requiring perfectly good vehicles to be destroyed

I was raised to not be wasteful, to see if forced infuriates me.

 

[Welder Dave]

A lot of classic and desirable vehicles were destroyed because the owners who had no clue what they had. They just wanted something newer.

 

[Vetech63]

What really has my curiosity up is the fact that I can buy a new Tier 3 engine, but they are requiring the old ones to be destroyed. I asked if this was perhaps a surplus engine, but got no answer for that question. I'm thinking its a new build with a 4 week delivery time that they gave me. Soo.....how does that work?!

 

[funwithfuel]

We just did a 6.7 in a Kone crane. Cummins wants that core, placed a heavy core charge on it. I Don't know what is going on with your distributor except that it may be NOS and they can't grow inventory only maintain existing?

 

[Vetech63]

We just did a 6.7 in a Kone crane. Cummins wants that core, placed a heavy core charge on it. I Don't know what is going on with your distributor except that it may be NOS and they can't grow inventory only maintain existing?

Did you get brand new or a reman?

 

[funwithfuel]

I'm gonna have to ask. It wasn't my baby, I know the tech who did it was making sure it was "as received " so they could get full core credit.

 

[Vetech63]

I'm gonna have to ask. It wasn't my baby, I know the tech who did it was making sure it was "as received " so they could get full core credit.

I got a quote on a complete reman with a core of 5K, but the brand new engine was only 1K higher in price with no core. I just don’t know if this is an EPA thing or a Cummins thing that they are TELLING me is an EPA thing.

 

[John C.]

I'm intrigued by this so started doing some research. So far I have only found this from the EPA.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/performance-diesel-inc-clean-air-act-settlement-information-sheet

It concerns one manufacturer of emissions defeat or delete devices. I'll post anything else I happen to find concerning destroying Tier 3 and older engine blocks. As far as I know at this time the only engines required to be destroyed were Tier 0 blocks.

 

[Truck Shop]

Eaton destroys the old gear cases on core, and by old I mean the type with a pipe plug to check oil level. Eaton want's those out of the system to sell new.

 

[John C.]

I think this regulation is the one that started most of the regulations for non highway equipment.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1998-10-23/pdf/98-24836.pdf

There is a part in that regulation that says as each Tier rating takes effect, no more engines of lesser standards can be produced. It also states that any engine rebuilt has to be of materially the same build as the original engine with the same emissions package. A rebuilder has to keep records showing the parts that went into the engine. You will notice that this regulation is dated 1998. I'll keep digging.

 

[Mobiltech]

Sounds like i should load up all my ventilated block engines and head south to exchange them with your rebuildable take outs.
I have a couple 3306 blocks id be willing to trade.

 

[JD955SC]

What really has my curiosity up is the fact that I can buy a new Tier 3 engine, but they are requiring the old ones to be destroyed. I asked if this was perhaps a surplus engine, but got no answer for that question. I'm thinking its a new build with a 4 week delivery time that they gave me. Soo.....how does that work?!

It’s a one for one replacement

Cat is still cranking out pre emissions engines (and older model machines) for export markets, by the way. You just can’t one of those engines for yourself on its own, it has to be a replacement for an engine you already own. We have customers that would rather run an engine to destruction and get a new replacement vs getting a rebuild by us or reman from Cat.

 

[Vetech63]

Eaton destroys the old gear cases on core, and by old I mean the type with a pipe plug to check oil level. Eaton want's those out of the system to sell new.

I’m wondering if this is what Cummins is doing. None of the paperwork looks like any kind of government issue.

 

[John C.]

It's an EPA thing now. Here is the final regulations that industry is currently under.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2014-02-06/pdf/2014-02612.pdf

It's a mess of legalese and conflicts. The gist is that if you have a ten year old machine where the engine is broken, you can only put a new engine in that conforms to current environmental regulation. If there is no way that a current engine will fit that particular application, such as there being existing space issues or application issues, the manufacturer can apply for an exemption to put something of lesser compliance in. If an exempted engine is installed, that take out must be destroyed so that it can never be used again.
So lets say you have a Tier 2 engine in a dozer that blows up. The manufacturer can't sell you a rebuild for that exact engine without there being an exemption. If there is an exemption, then the old engine must be destroyed. There is some other stuff in there with life cycle projections for off highway equipment. The original projections was twenty five years. There are comments that it should be forty years. I didn't read far enough to see which they chose. There is probably at least and hour to two hours of reading on that link. Enjoy, keep a pillow handy as it will put you to sleep after a bit.

 

[Brent Little]

I ship engines to Canada and other countries, also all heavy Equipment parts, From the factories and as long as the labelling is right and it is REPLACEMENT ENGINE ONLY I have not had a problem.
Canada follows US EPA regulations so it should be the same there too.