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New Caterpillar D7E - Opinions?

BigIron25

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Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
196
Location
Missouri
Have any owners/operators out there tried out the new Caterpillar D7E? Has Caterpillar even begun to field the new dozer? I have just recently learned about the new machine and have some doubts about it. Maybe because its such a radical change in their dozer line. But it does look good on paper, just want some ideas/opinions from someone who has actually used it or seen it in operation in person! I have the link from Caterpillar's website in case other people were in the dark about this new dozer or had any doubts about its existence. Any opinions or thoughts appreciated!!! :usa

Heres the link-

http://www.cat.com/D7E
 

Motat

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Sep 10, 2007
Messages
72
Location
New Zealand
Occupation
Contracting /Building
Was interested to read efficiency data and compareing amount of m/3 moved etc.
No mention I note on how far this Quantity was moved .I0 mtrs 100 Mtrs ???????
Not wanting to knock the machine,all the same,could well be a goodie.
I also wonder how the price compares,with standard tractor ,Any mention of this ???
Regards
 

bear

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Mar 22, 2008
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South Central Kentucky
Occupation
Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
From what I gather the beast is still in the prototype stage and is having bugs worked out. It's been several months or a year since I heard anything new, that being said I haven't looked either.
 

later814

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
13
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Gang,

Couple of things:

D7E has been in field test for over 6 months with end-users

Fuel Savings are about 20% on average over a D7R Series II

It's about 25% more efficient in terms of material moved... it's actually closer to the D8T in terms of productivity than the D7R

It's going to be pricey!

Servicability is dramatically improved... The entire cab tilts up nearly 90 degrees so all major components are accessible... it also has far less moving parts because there is no transmission or torque convertor.

The operator feedback in terms of power and response has been very positive. The biggest complaint is that it doesn't sound like it's working. The engine only runs at about 1700 RPM and doesn't ever really lug so that takes some getting used to.
 

CEwriter

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Nov 16, 2004
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391
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St. Louis, MO
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journalist
I was in Peoria on Tuesday for Caterpillar's official introduction of the D7E. They were announcing that the unit will go into production in October, ramping up to full production by mid-2010. That's when production of the D7RII will cease.

There are 18 pre-production (produced on the East Peoria TTT line) units in the field with customers getting real-life experience, and Cat arranged to have representatives of three companies in Peoria to talk about their experience. As you might expect, all were very positive. Some of the details were particularly interesting, and you can find some of them in this ConstructionEquipment.com machine analysis. We're in the process of posting some short audio clips of customers' comments about the machines.

My summation of what those who are using the machine said goes like this:

Maneuverable and controllable enough to work on sites previously restricted to the D6, but powerful enough to do most of what a D8 can do.

Caterpillar has upgraded its estimation of the fuel-efficiency advantages. Back at Conexpo (March of 2008), they were saying 10 to 20 percent reduction in fuel consumption compared to the D7RII. Now they're saying 10 to 30 percent. And users are saying they see significantly more. As much as 50 percent less fuel consumption, particularly in lighter-duty work.

Cat's saying they will set the MSRP at 20% above that of the D7RII. That puts the D7E at about $600,000, or within 12% of the D8T. Check out the D7E intro analysis for a comparison of the cost per hour of the 7RII and the 7E.

With its fuel-efficiency advantages and lower undercarriage and PM costs, the D7E should cost about 7 percent more per hour to operate than the D7RII. In hourly production terms, it delivers about 10% more yards of dirt moved. But 10% more hours per year won't bring the 7E's hourly rate down to equal the 7RII's. Owners are going to have to think differently at least about their D7 work to take full advantage of the hybrid bulldozer's efficiencies.

How many D7-sized-tractor users can expect to get enough additional work for a D7E by virtue of its productivity advantages to make it earn its keep?

The D7E's hourly rate is easily 20% below that of the D8T.

Users gathered in Peoria were all doing conventional dozer work with their machines -- pushing considerable distances doing reclamation in a lignite mine, gravel pit, and quarry. The loading supervisor from Dolet Hills Lignite, J.V. Ropollo, said he'd gone so far as to put the D7E in a job that is usually done by a D10. Ground got soft and the D10 was having trouble getting around. The D7E could handle the underfoot conditions better (the standard track puts as much track on the ground as a D7RII LGP). He said the 7E operator wasn’t happy about it (guess he had to work at it pretty hard), but he was very nearly keeping up the work pace he had done in better conditions with the D10!

The D7E had also pulled loaded 785 haul trucks out of the mud that Dolet Hills' D7RII couldn't budge.

Dolet Hills had 1,600 hours on the unit (they run two twelves). Its tracks are on pace to just out-last the tracks on their conventional dozers. Lots of sand down there, so they only expect about 2,200 hours to the first turn.

Plote Construction's gravel-pit reclamation sounded like it was pretty tough, too. They parked a D8T, and the D7E was stripping and filling with all kinds of reclaimed asphalt and concrete. Plote said it was doing some really long pushing, although he didn't give any specific distances. Had pushed some scrapers, too.

Crossfire, diversified heavy contractor in the Four Corners region with a lot of oil and gas business, sounded like they would be putting the 7E on some D6-sized projects. They'd done a lot of reclamation work in 500 hours, but were also sure it would perform on road and site development jobs.

The diesel drives a generator that produces up to 480 volts. HD, armored cables with mil-spec connectors carry the voltage to a propulsion unit with two high-speed electric motors. The propulsion unit drives pretty conventional Cat diff-steer units and final gear reductions.

The motor/diff-steer configuration does out-perform conventional transmission/diff-steer pairing in that the D7E electronic controllers are programmed to deliver lock-track turns. The stopped track will not freewheel, for example, if the tractor is on a slope when the operator puts the tractor into a turn that stops the inside track. The D7E drivetrain is also capable of counter-rotating the tracks.

In a side-by-side demonstration, the D7E clearly outworked the D7RII. Now, the Cat operators could have rigged that any way they wanted to, and surely the things they did with the tractors played to the D7E's strengths. But I have no doubt that the new tractor will deliver 10 percent more work per hour. Cat puts that with the fuel-efficiency advantage and says the 7E produces 25 percent more earthmoving per gallon of fuel.

One thing's for sure, they aren't exaggerating about the view from the operator's seat. I'm not a dozer operator (I did stay at Holiday Inn Express once . . . ) but I was in the cabs of a D6N, a D7RII, a D8T, and a D7E on Tuesday. There's no comparison. There just is not much to block your view. And it's quiet. Easily half the noise at high idle, as Cat claims.

It's far smoother than the D7RII, and every bit as nimble as the D6N (I was doing laps with them in an indoor arena at Cat's Edwards, Ill., demo grounds). You gotta keep your eyes open because the 7E doesn't really lug down under load. If you have the electronic ground-speed control set too high (as this greenhorn did), the tracks start to slip with no audible warning.

At max. 480 volts, mechanics don't need a certification to work on the drive train. There will certainly be some training required to keep these things up and running as they age. All of the accessories -- including the hydraulic pumps, water pump, air conditioning -- are run electrically. There are no belts off the front of the engine, no refrigerant hoses in the engine compartment, no alternator. Accessory power comes from an inverter over the right fender.

More D7E technical details.

Photo 1: "Look Ma! No belts!" Wide-open engine compartment is built to accommodate the aftertreatment that will take the C9.3 (pre-production only today) all the way to Tier 4i in 2011.

Photo 2: Inverter powers all of the hybrid dozer's accessories -- including the hydraulic systems, water pump, air conditioning.
 

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JDOFMEMI

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Jan 3, 2007
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SoCal
I am supposed to get to try one out in a week or 2. I am looking forward to it, and will post my thoughts after I try it out.
 

Tigerotor77W

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Nov 1, 2004
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Michigan
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Larry -- that's an amazing account of the press event. Thanks for posting it here and in a different form to your blog.

I really hope this dozer succeeds. I know far too many Cat people who have put their every effort into this machine, and while I don't expect perfection, it seems like it's off to a pretty decent start. Fingers crossed, but tentatively, well-done, Cat. This is definitely a high point in this rather dismal year.
 

qball

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Dec 30, 2007
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il
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local 150 operator
plote is right up the road, and i have some buddys working there.
i gotta check it out.
 

Tigerotor77W

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I missed out on it, too. I had no idea Plote got a D7E; I'm originally from the Glenview area!
 

BritOperator

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Jun 24, 2009
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Lancashire, England
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It's certainly a departure from the norm for Cat. Without running one it's hard to make a concise opinion on wether it will be good or bad. I've run all kinds of dozer by all the main manufactures, with manual, torque converter, and hydrostatic transmissions. The D7E seems to have a drive very similar to a hydraulic hydrostatic drive which on the tractor I ran with that kind of drive I found did not work well for dozing operations. The machine in question was a Liebherr 732. I found it had the power but couldn't put it through the tracks to the ground. I only hope the D7E has a good power to weight ratio.
 

them1677

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Feb 19, 2009
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Location
Virginia
I heard that Liebherr has changed their dozers in the new 4 series. The hydrostatic has always had complaints about it being quiet. I would like to hear from someone who has used and compared these hydrostatics.
 

Tigerotor77W

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The D7E brochure is available on the Cat (US) website now... cat.com, Machines, Track-Type Tractors, Medium TTT, D7E.
 

JDOFMEMI

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Jan 3, 2007
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SoCal
Well, Yesterday was it. I got to get a close look at the demo machine, as well as about 1/2 hr of seat time in the new D-7E. I have gotten the opportunity to run many new machines in my career, but this is the best dozer I have operated.
I went in with some scepticism, and wanted to really find all the machines problems so I could tell the engineers about them, but I only had 2 small complaints.

This new machine just amazed me with the performance. It is as fast as a D-4C Hystat machine, and even better control. It will operate as fast or as slow as you wish, and is very smooth forward to reverse. Even an animal of an operator will look good on this machine. The speed and directional modulates very smoothly, even with full speed directional changes. You have a foot controlled speed modulation pedal that will take you smooooothly from your set high speed down to a full stop. Breaking over an edge? You can inch forward as slow as you like to keep it under control. Turning is as fast or slow as you wish it to be, from a gentle turn to a locked track turn, to full counter rotation. You do have to go to neutral for counter rotation though.

The visibility out of this thing almost makes you wonder if there is even a cab surrounding you. The only blind spot is a bit over your left shoulder. The cab pillar and AC ducts in the rear left of the cab block some of the view that way.

This machine puts power to the ground better than any machine I have ever ran. You select the max speed you wish to travel, and it will gradually slow as you increase the load, but I was not able to stall it out. It slowed to about 1st gear speed under full load, and when your load reduces any, it runs back up to the max speed you have selected. You can even run max speed, 3rd, into a pile and it slows to pushing speed, then as the load gets spread out, speed increases. All this talk about speed, and yet it will go as slow as you need as well, if that is what is needed. sometimes in rock, even 1st gear is too fast in most tractors, but you can dial this one down to 1/10th of first gear, or anywhere in between to get the job done.
I do not know if I described it well enough to understand, but I could not find a problem, try as I might.

My firs impression is that Cat did their homework on this one, and it is a winner.
 

Construct'O

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Feb 18, 2007
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SW Iowa
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Dozerwork,tiling plus many more!!!!!!!
The counter rotation is because of the dif steer setup.I'm pretty sure.Don't you think?

I hardly every counter rotate unless in a tight working area.Thanks for the report !:usa
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
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So, does anybody have any ideas why CAT would put all this technology in a conventional track-type tractor? It seems to me that the high drive platform would be as well or better suited to this type of drive system.
 

farm_boy

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Dec 12, 2006
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The sunflower state
So, does anybody have any ideas why CAT would put all this technology in a conventional track-type tractor? It seems to me that the high drive platform would be as well or better suited to this type of drive system.

I think its best explained by this quote from Dave Nicoll, commercial manager in Cat's tractor products department.

"We carefully evaluated all of the kinds of work that a D7 does, and decided the low-drive undercarriage configuration is the best choice for the job," Nicoll explains. "You get the greatest value out of elevated-sprocket undercarriage when it is suspended, and only the D8 and larger sized elevated sprocket undercarriages are suspended. Certainly we will continue to use the elevated-sprocket undercarriage on the D8 and larger tractors."

IMO this is only an admission that the hi-drive was a marketing ploy the last 20 years for machines without a suspended U/C, giving no real advantage to the tractor. I fully expect the D6N and D6T replacements coming down the road to be low drive as well. I speculate that the replacement for the 6N will be a hydrostatic and the 6T replacement will have its own version of E-drive.
 

oldirt

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Apr 22, 2009
Messages
504
Location
iowa
or just leave them as they are and call them something else. I doubt seriously cat will spend any new development money on anything right now. buyers will look at spending a lot less for everything as well and this does not include new technology that costs much more with a promise that if you run it twenty years you might come out ahead a little.

Everything works great until the work dries up.
 
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