New Cat 977K owner with questions

[MT Rancher]

Just picked up Cat 977K (S# 46K608) from gsa auction in Yellowstone National Park. Greased and checked levels then did a little work around corrals at ranch. Appears to be nicely maintained and everything worked as it should. I am new to this tracked loader and was impressed with its size and power.

However, it is missing the thick counter weight in the back. I asked the YNP maintenance manager about it and he said it never had it since they acquired it from another govt agency years ago. I had heaping bucket loads of dirt and didn’t notice tipping tendency but I am sure it is on there normally for good reason. I am ultimately interested in having a ripper on back as I think that would be best for my ranch use. I assume ripper mounts directly to machine without counter weight.

How much does that counter weight weigh? Does it have inner section that mounts to machines studs and and outer section that then mounts to it? Looking at pictures of 977k’s with counter weights look like I see 4 studs with nuts in a horizontal line about midway up weight (my machine has large studs running up and down vertically on each side so doesn’t appear to match - see pic).

Just so you know, my machine does have the third hydraulic control and it is plumbed up front for I assume a 4 in 1 bucket or another front implement (it doesn’t currently have 4 in 1 bucket and lines are capped). If I could find a ripper and get it plumbed to existing third valve that would be my preferred option. Is ripper an adequate counter weight and how does ripper weight compare to OEM counterweight?

I have ordered appropriate service/shop manuals and the parts manual but not sure they will be that helpful for my questions. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

MT Rancher

 

[Bluox]

Unless you are loading trucks I bet you won't miss a weight.
Looks like it may have had a winch.
Tracks look like they may be well worn.
Bad Bob

 

[MT Rancher]

Bad Bob,
Thanks for your comments. We will be loading into trucks on occasion but not consistently. I think I will use without counter weight for now and try to find a ripper that would also serve as some weight on back.

The groused bars are only about an inch high but appear to be made that way (square corners).

If anyone has info on ripper installation and plumbing in to third valve (my lines currently go to the crossmember behind bucket), that would be great.

MT Rancher

 

[Welder Dave]

Usually with a ripper you don't also need the counterweight. It shouldn't be too hard to plumb your 3rd valve to the rear. Could either go directly from control valve or splice into the lines before they connect to lines going down the loader boom. Would have to see how it's currently plumbed. If you can't find a ripper and wanted some counterweight, it shouldn't be hard to make a steel frame that bolts on you could make a box and fill it with several bags of Quick Crete concrete. Make sure to weld a lifting hook on it in case you need to remove it.

 

[MT Rancher]

I appreciate the comments and will definitely put hook on a weight, if I make one. I’m looking for a ripper and will make some calls tomorrow on some internet salvage 977k’s that show one. The only significant down side to the ripper I see would be the reduced clearance in back for maneuvering in tight quarters and doesn’t look like something you would want to remove and reinstall too often.
Regards,
MT Rancher

 

[Welder Dave]

You wouldn't want to be putting a ripper on and off. Also a 977 isn't the machine to use if your working in tight quarters. It's a big machine and doesn't have counter-rotating tracks either.

 

[bunkclimber]

my 977K has two(2)counterweights on it, they are optional, you can stack them to as many as you need with the appropriate length thru bolts, from what I can remember the CW's are 2"thick and 1500lbs each,which seems about right with the dimensions of the rear of the loader. I've lifted 15K on the front (12K with fork attachment that weighs 3K) with the rear drive just starting to come off the ground. If you mount a ripper,the ripper weight will just about equal the weights..winch would be more depending on what winch and what length wire rope you have on it.. Your machine via the photo looks like it had a ripper on it,removed and someone put the pin hitch back on afterwards..A lot of these machines still exist on the west coast,seems like all the winches that will fit a 977 are on the west coast,Ive looked for one and thats where they all are for the most part. Do be aware the 977 uses a driveshaft out the back of the winch thru the rear bevel gear housing above the pin hitch pictured-(star shaped cover comes off-thats where the winch driveshaft goes in),be sure to get the whole winch setup when you buy one,parts are long out of production and are hard to come by. I think the winch you want is a 977 specific 'PC' winch(power controlled)-the D7 winch is a different one. there are a few threads on this board about that,search back a ways from what I can remember

 

[bunkclimber]

FWIW if you want hydraulics for the ripper just get a 3valve hyd tank for the 977, don't try to intercept the hydraulic lines as pressure doubling can result without an additional relief valve inline..I answered this question earlier in a different thread here

 

[MT Rancher]

I appreciate the info on weights and winch Bunkclimber. I do have a third valve hydraulic tank, but it is plumbed up to the loader and terminates behind the bucket. Can I hook into those lines or should I add a fourth valve for the ripper? I would like to leave plumbing up to bucket in case I can find a 4 in 1. Machine has the rock bucket on it now.

I have a lot of poly water line to lay for stock water and thought I could build a stinger to go behind center shank of ripper and feed the pipe over ROPs from pipe spool mounted on bucket.

 

[Welder Dave]

I would think you might be able to hook a selector valve to switch hyd's for the 4 in 1 bucket to the rear for a ripper. Too bad you couldn't find the 977 used in the movie Tremors. I think it was K with a 4 in 1 bucket.

 

[Nige]

This is what the ripper mounting looks like. How does that stack up to the studs you have in the rear case.?
Nuts marked #6 are 1", nuts marked #7 are 1-1/4", nuts marked #9 are 1-1/2"

 

[MT Rancher]

Yes these look like what I have on the case. I am missing a couple studs but case is tapped for them. I just need to find complete used ripper and selector valve at this point. Thanks for information Nige.

 

[Nige]

Is the machine S/N you originally posted (46K608) correct.? I think it should be 46H608, 46K prefix comes up as a 9S bulldozer blade.

 

[MT Rancher]

Yes, you are correct 46H608. Sorry about that. Engine S/N the same.

 

[Nige]

Yes, you are correct 46H608. Sorry about that. Engine S/N the same.

I thought as much. Check your messages. I just sent you something.

 

[bunkclimber]

I appreciate the info on weights and winch Bunkclimber. I do have a third valve hydraulic tank, but it is plumbed up to the loader and terminates behind the bucket. Can I hook into those lines or should I add a fourth valve for the ripper? I would like to leave plumbing up to bucket in case I can find a 4 in 1. Machine has the rock bucket on it now.

I have a lot of poly water line to lay for stock water and thought I could build a stinger to go behind center shank of ripper and feed the pipe over ROPs from pipe spool mounted on bucket.

To connect into the third valve lines you'd have to intercept the flow before the swivel joints,they are located on the firewall(behind the "dashboard"-but in the engine compartment) the hydraulic lines are all steel hardlines, from the valve/tank up thru the swivel joints, up the loader mast until they reach the front mast weight(big oval casting,front of loader h-frame)..best place to intercept if you wanted to do that would be right off the bottom of the hydraulic valve tank,where the valves are located. There's room under the hyd tank to do this if you pull the bottom side cover off(under the tank)-you'll see the hardlines coming out off the tank..there's a couple o-ring 4-bolt flange fittings there you could make or buy adapters to transition to hyd hose then set a transfer valve if you really have to..For my money i'd keep it simple and remove the hardlines to the loader mast and cap them off..just get 4-bolt flange adapter plates or make them,and adapt from the tank/valve outputs to rubber hyd hoses and go back to your ripper..Maybe even get the ripper hardlines from the same people who you buy your ripper from,maybe they are on the donor machine and available for purchase. I have to tear into my 977K in the springtime,she's been neglected and in need of attention..steer clutch piston seals and a lift cylinder replacement..that oughta be fun..Happy Holidays to you all

 

[MT Rancher]

Your probably right to just cap the lines off to the loader. I could reconnect if I ever get a 4 in one or grapple bucket. I probably won’t get to that unless a project comes up that justifies them. Once it warms up a bit I’ll pull that side cover and get a game plan going. I’m having a hard time locating a ripper— almost bought a running but wore out undercarriage and transmission issued 977L that had a nice ripper and cab for a donor machine. Price was right and had everything I needed for the install, but pretty far to go get and busy with other things right now. I’ve done some snow removal recently with the 977 and a cab would be nice for winter. May end up going that route eventually.
I read in my manual about the lift cylinder replacement— it doesn’t look too fun! Good luck and thanks for your thoughts. Happy Holidays!

 

[bunkclimber]

working on a larger machine like a 977 can be a challenge but so much easier with a forklift..track/rail replacement, cylinder swops, ROPS and mast removal..all easy (actually a one-man job)-if you set it up right..I lifted the mast up in the air with the 977 hyd lift lever in 'float' position with the forklift after I disconnected the hydraulic lines to the lift cyl being replaced..I made round block-off plates with an o-ring on them to seal off flow where the lift cyl hoses connect to that Right side cylinder seeings its a parallel circuit with the other cylinder..why dump 5gallons of oil into the cylinder if ya dont have to)..then used the safety bars to support the mast in the upright position on the opposite side,also have 8x8 blocks inside as a backup safety..use the forklift with a lifting strap choked around the barrel of the offending cylinder, punch the forward mast cylinder pin out, then remove the circular pivot bearing retainer from the loader upright, pull outward and rotate the cylinder while being held in position out of the bearing holder and sideshift with forklift right out of the uprights..easy peasy with a forklift,no challenge. I did this job two years ago and determined the cylinder was a waste, the rod badly gouged up and the entire back cap of the cylinder was re-welded back on..? what happened there? I got back i touch with the firm that owned the loader before me and they said they couldnt talk about it..now there's a story somewhere there. I dont like having things apart for long periods so I put the bad cylinder back in the machine..So it took a while to find another serviceable lift cylinder for a 977K, got one from a yard in Wilkes Barre,PA,good people there..so the second time to do the swop in the springtime I'll get some pics of the back cap re-welded back onto the cylinder..I can't imagine why this was done or what happened to make that necessary..the loader was used in a rock quarry so who knows what carnage it saw.
Anyway to get back on track here,if you do go get a ripper and or counterweights if you dont already have one or access to one I highly recommend you find a forklift or rent one(worth every dollar)before starting a job like that..it's so much easier to do with the right equipment..even a service body truck crane of the right size will do

 

[Welder Dave]

working on a larger machine like a 977 can be a challenge but so much easier with a forklift..track/rail replacement, cylinder swops, ROPS and mast removal..all easy (actually a one-man job)-if you set it up right..I lifted the mast up in the air with the 977 hyd lift lever in 'float' position with the forklift after I disconnected the hydraulic lines to the lift cyl being replaced..I made round block-off plates with an o-ring on them to seal off flow where the lift cyl hoses connect to that Right side cylinder seeings its a parallel circuit with the other cylinder..why dump 5gallons of oil into the cylinder if ya dont have to)..then used the safety bars to support the mast in the upright position on the opposite side,also have 8x8 blocks inside as a backup safety..use the forklift with a lifting strap choked around the barrel of the offending cylinder, punch the forward mast cylinder pin out, then remove the circular pivot bearing retainer from the loader upright, pull outward and rotate the cylinder while being held in position out of the bearing holder and sideshift with forklift right out of the uprights..easy peasy with a forklift,no challenge. I did this job two years ago and determined the cylinder was a waste, the rod badly gouged up and the entire back cap of the cylinder was re-welded back on..? what happened there? I got back i touch with the firm that owned the loader before me and they said they couldnt talk about it..now there's a story somewhere there. I dont like having things apart for long periods so I put the bad cylinder back in the machine..So it took a while to find another serviceable lift cylinder for a 977K, got one from a yard in Wilkes Barre,PA,good people there..so the second time to do the swop in the springtime I'll get some pics of the back cap re-welded back onto the cylinder..I can't imagine why this was done or what happened to make that necessary..the loader was used in a rock quarry so who knows what carnage it saw.
Anyway to get back on track here,if you do go get a ripper and or counterweights if you dont already have one or access to one I highly recommend you find a forklift or rent one(worth every dollar)before starting a job like that..it's so much easier to do with the right equipment..even a service body truck crane of the right size will do

In float you shouldn't need to disconnect any lines to lift the loader arms. Just need a big enough machine to lift them and the bucket. The bucket could be removed to make it easier too.

 

[bunkclimber]

WelderDave I disconnected the lift cylinder lines so I could pull the right side lift cylinder off the machine for replacement..pulled the bucket off first and lifted the mast up in the air with a 4000lb forklift,then set the lift lock link and inserted my own cylinder brace to act as a safety bar to support the mast to work on the cylinder removal. I left the hoses ON the lift cylinder prior to removal of it, its easier to remove/install the hoses off the machine