NEW Cat 150 AWD

[20/80]

Thanks so much Nige, this is giving me a better understanding why my machine is doing what it is doing in regards to shifting, I will get the Cat tech to check relating to the TOS sensor for codes and maybe have something for you, thanks again

 

[Nige]

The PSR is downloaded using ET in the form of an Adobe pdf file. Takes a couple of minutes if the tech is already hooked up to the machine, and nothing in it is confidential that can't be shared with the customer.
It will likely be anything up to 12 pages and covers (what appears to be) a million different parameters. However if one knows what one is looking for it's not hard to interpret.

TBH it was a standard SOP for us to download a PSR immediately on connection to the machine, then download another one after completing whatever work was done. The files are time-stamped so it is easy to see which one was the "before" and which was the "after". Often useful because if logged Diagnostic Codes were erased as part of the service work it's easy to refer back to what was on the machine in times past.

 

[ovrszd]

If his machine is displaying proper characteristics I'd say that sucks.

If his machine is operating outside the designed parameters then I'd want it adjusted.

What he describes would be unacceptable to me. Especially the upshift, then downshift. I agree with him the machine is going to lurch and create an imperfection in the finish grade. That would frustrate me terribly.....

I blade the first two passes on a road half throttle in 5th. I'd be aggravated if the machine decided to shift gears based on engine speed.

I blade my final pass in 6th WOT or 7th half throttle. Again, I want control of shifts.

Curious to hear the outcome of this situation. I'm hoping the parameters are simply too restrictive and can be adjusted to allow some flexibility.

 

[20/80]

If his machine is displaying proper characteristics I'd say that sucks.

If his machine is operating outside the designed parameters then I'd want it adjusted.

What he describes would be unacceptable to me. Especially the upshift, then downshift. I agree with him the machine is going to lurch and create an imperfection in the finish grade. That would frustrate me terribly.....

I blade the first two passes on a road half throttle in 5th. I'd be aggravated if the machine decided to shift gears based on engine speed.

I blade my final pass in 6th WOT or 7th half throttle. Again, I want control of shifts.

Curious to hear the outcome of this situation. I'm hoping the parameters are simply too restrictive and can be adjusted to allow some flexibility.

I'm thinking I will have to adjust to this torque curve in this new 150, not really sure how i'm going to do that, what is written in the manual on this issue and real world operating of this machine in different road conditions and tasks can really be a big difference, this imfo to remedy the erratic shifting may only be based on the best conditions, you take ditching especially in soft conditions the trans may shift all over the place when slowing and speeding up to get through some trickier area's of the cut, ice blading with this torque curve may be very frustrating also, I am usually between forth and fifth gear when ice blading that's between the high and low side of this tranny, so you are gaining and losing power when cutting all the time, all depends on ice conditions some sections can be soft and others hard even in favorable temps, again this may cause this tranny setup to jump all over the place through its gears and cause you to break traction.

 

[Nige]

Do I recall you saying more than one of these machines had been bought new.?
If that's the case can you get to run one of the others relatively easily.?
If the same shifting issue manifested itself on the other machine then you could say with some confidence it is being caused by machine parameters, i.e. the power train (engine/trans ECM) software strategy.
If however the other machine performs impeccably with you in the seat then you could point the finger at your particular machine.

 

[20/80]

I had a chance to run one of our sister shops 12M2 with the same DEF engine tranny combo a few weeks ago during some training exercises, in manual mode it only down shifted once the whole week when operating below 1100 rpm in 4th, there was no jumping around back and forth in the gears at all, ran very nice and smooth in the shifts and showed no signs of erratic shifting around in the gears like my 150, kind of makes me wonder with the extra load with the AWD engaged may have something to do with it, maybe with the increase in HP when you engage AWD affects the torque curve making shifting more sensitive, just a thought, you would think the ECMs would compensate for that though.

 

[Nige]

I had a chance to run one of our sister shops 12M2 with the same DEF engine tranny combo a few weeks ago during some training exercises,

Unfortunately there is no way of guaranteeing that the engine/power train software is the same between the two models. I thought you said that your employer had bought something like 10 new 150 AWD machines and so my question was more along the lines of could you get in the saddle of one of them.

If you can get hold of the S/N of the 12M then PM it to me and I'll compare software between your machine and it. Send your machine S/N as well.

 

[20/80]

I will Nige, it may be a couple weeks though till I get back over in that area, also may have a chance to check a new 140 AWD with the levers, just received a new one at another shop, that would have the same engine tranny combo I would think, its the 9.3 engine.

 

[John C.]

Another thing you might consider is getting the dealer demonstration operator out there and have him run the machine. Those guys know how the machine is supposed to run and have direct contact with the factory to ask any questions that might come up. They also have behind the scenes input at times with the engineers when they come across a problem that might be design related.

 

[20/80]

The dealer demonstration operator that come out to go over my 150 AWD also is asking questions, he is not sure either why the gear changing is happening like it is, I sent him some info that Nige sent me to look over also.

 

[ovrszd]

I will Nige, it may be a couple weeks though till I get back over in that area, also may have a chance to check a new 140 AWD with the levers, just received a new one at another shop, that would have the same engine tranny combo I would think, its the 9.3 engine.

The ECM setup will be different in the 150 versus 140 versus 12M. To prove or disprove Nige's point you would need to run a 150.

 

[ovrszd]

The dealer demonstration operator that come out to go over my 150 AWD also is asking questions, he is not sure either why the gear changing is happening like it is, I sent him some info that Nige sent me to look over also.

Did he run it long enough to experience these problems? Would be great if he did.

 

[20/80]

Did he run it long enough to experience these problems? Would be great if he did.

No he did not, just around a parking lot.

 

[20/80]

Well guy's I thought I would post a update on my 150AWD, the machine seems to be working just fine so far, I am putting her through her paces with some ditching and road recovery, I must say I am impressed with the pulling power and its ability to get you out of a bad situation, spreading new gravel on a road also is impressive, you can move alot of material with this 150 AWD at one time without breaking traction when leveling the gravel piles compared to my old 140H, so far I am happy with the machine over all, hopefully she stays together.

 

[20/80]

I have a question that maybe somebody could answer, has anybody ever run carbide studs in your front wheels during snow and ice duties? been thinking about putting carbide studs in my front tires on the 150AWD for the winter, where our front fenders which are a necessity in this area because we use such alot of road salt that would completely cover your windows with salt residue without them are close to the tires and its extremely hard to get chains on the front tires, been reading a few reviews on the studs which seem to be positive, I am looking at GripStuds for Graders rated for 20+ ton, any advise or opinions or experience on using studs would be appreciated, thanks so much

 

[Welder Dave]

I saw those when I priced blades and they look like they would be a good option. Not sure how they would hold up if spinning the tires a lot but wouldn't think you'd be spinning that much.

 

[20/80]

I saw those when I priced blades and they look like they would be a good option. Not sure how they would hold up if spinning the tires a lot but wouldn't think you'd be spinning that much.

Thanks, At the demo for my 150 the Cat rep explained that where you have power in your front wheels any icy turns that your in AWD you will find that your front wheels will break traction and slide wanting to go straight and not make the turn even when your rears are unlocked, so you would either have to be fully chained up in the front or in my case carbide studs when ice blading to keep the front wheels planted while in AWD, I have looked at different types of carbide studs and the GripStud brand has a much bigger auger style thread to keep the studs locked in place compared to other brands that use just a sheet metal screw style thread to hold them in place, GripStud reviews on using them on heavy equipment such as big Cat loaders used for snow removal have a very good rating, also with their special install tool you can remove the stud in the spring, some operators are getting 3 years out of a set removing them every spring, we use the ladder style chains which are not so bad on the rears for vibration but used on the front will shake your machine to pieces if your not going slow, Carbide studs on the front would be much smoother for sure, I am thinking 200 per tire for the front which will give me 1 in every lug, the more studs used the less stress on each stud and greater the traction. any thoughts on this are welcomed

 

[Welder Dave]

I liked the look of GripStuds and think they would work good. The 780A grader I looked at, at RB had had 3 chains on it. 2 on the furthest back tires and 1 on a front tire. I think they seller should have taken them off to sell separately. They were HD studded chains and the tires were 20.5x25. From reading on here it's always best to have chains on all 4 back tires so you don't stress the drive chains for the tandems. Another reason I'm glad I didn't pursue this machine. I think it had a tough life or at least some rough operators. How do bust the circle shift cylinder mount off? Twisting the end of the moldboard extension I can see happening if trying to take too much of a bite. Maybe the broke cylinder mount and twisted moldboard extension are related from shifting the blade over and putting all the force on the moldboard extension???

 

[20/80]

The operator was running down the road in high gear with his mouldboard extended out and hit something hard like a huge rock would be my best guess to bend the mouldboard and bust the circle shift mount off, major stress on all the parts involved, yep 4 chains on the back is the best.

 

[Welder Dave]

I went to RB again today and looked at the 780A again. The moldboard wasn't bent as bad as I first thought but both circle shift mounts had been re-welded. The cylinder can be moved from 1 side to the other. How the 1 broke in the middle is really perplexing. Why one the cylinder wasn't attached to was re-welded is also very interesting. Maybe it was used in the past??? If the damage was caused in operating would be serious abuse.