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new 20 ton trailer

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by jmac, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    I would think that the farther back the weight the tipper ( is this a word?) the trailer would be. More weight to transfer from side to side over the springs. The weight on the hitch is fixed and you would have to compress the springs on the truck more for tipping action. My truck is good for 40k to 50k pounds payload so springs are stronger on my truck than trailer. But all that being said I still think that the truck and trailer should share weight to some extent. I could be wrong, never had anyone tell me to do it this way, only just seen it done that way. Someone on this site should know the best way for truck and trailer to move 30k to 40k excavators on a tag.
     
  2. woberlin

    woberlin Well-Known Member

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    I, too , have rarely seen a tag trailer loaded with the boom facing forward. But it is awfully hard to argue against the manufacturers insructions. I will say though when I haul my 18,000# excavator on my 10 ton trailer, I have always hauled it with the boom to the rear and have definately noticed that the trailer seemed a little tippy on sharp turns and banked curves. Next time I move it, I will try it the other way.
     
  3. Nac

    Nac Senior Member

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    The problem I see with puting to much weight on the tounge is the the pintel is mounted behind the axles of the truck magnifying the effects of the trailer. It would make sence to keep the load over the axles of the trailer so they take up the majority of the weight.
     
  4. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    Myself 200 size machine is maxing out a triaxle tag trailer and a tandem a 160 size machine is maxing out a tandem axle trailer.

    The probem with a tag trailer is you load too much weight forward it makes the truck see saw on the rear suspension if you have a walking beam suspension or camel back etc. You could technically make the steers on the truck really light we have seen it happen with guys packing a 200 sized excavator on a tandem axle tilt trailer the front of the truck is bobbing around because its doing a dance on the rear tandems of the truck.

    Most guys make the tounge a little heavier on tag trailers because they are not banging around. We always load a excavator with the boom facing the rear it doesn't matter how much overhang the boom hangs off the back of the trailer.

    Around here we rarely use beaver tail tag trailers because the azz end of the trailer can ground out pulling up the side roads that have a incline. Also the highways dept gets awfully mad when your ramps from the trailer dig into the pavement. Also a tilt trailer is faster to load you undo the latch on the front take the bucket of the machine push the tail of the trailer down walk up and the machine is loaded no heavy ramps to deal with no adjusting ramps. Chain the machine down latch the front of the trailer down and off you go.

    The only way NAC is going to make that trailer idea he wants to use work is make the converter dolly fixed so when your backing up with the trailer the trailer will act like a fifth wheel. I sure hate to see NAC trying to back that trailer up on the crowed narrow streets of New Jersey.

    Myself I wouldn't be worried about the weight on the truck buy a triaxle tag trailer. The problem you will have NAC with a wagon trailer is you are going to have to have a loaded truck anytime you have a loaded trailer. The drive wheels will be way too light and they will spin. You will need atleast 5 ton over the drive wheels to keep them planted on the ground if not you will be pulling away from a light on a hill with a loaded trailer you will sit there spinning wheels or the truck will be bouncing up and down. That is very hard on axles and U joints.

    I have seen a regular gravel truck with a 160 sized excavator on a tandem axle tag make the truck break traction and spin out on wet pavement climbing a hill.
     
  5. CascadeScaper

    CascadeScaper Senior Member

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    I've never seen an excavator loaded with boom to front. The manufacturer is stupid, you can hang the boom out the back if you need to, just don't pull the back of the machine all the way up to the headboard on the trailer. We put 15-20% when hauling (when we had our 312), you need the tongue weight getting around out here.
     
  6. 90plow

    90plow Senior Member

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    If Nac is pulling with a single axle wouldn't he be pushing weight limits as it is with that size machine? If you add the dolley wouldn't that risk running it overweight?
    -Eric
     
  7. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    I think he wants to pull the trailer with the new Volvo he has, trying to pull a tag with a single axle truck is overloaded.
     
  8. Tacodriver

    Tacodriver Well-Known Member

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    Picture a triangle (<::)from your trailer wheels to your pintle hitch. Say you load your excavator near the front of the trailer you will be loading it on the smaller part of the triangle and since your pintle hitch dosen't resist twisting much (unlike a 5th wheel on a tractor) equals tippy trailer. It dosent really matter which way its loaded as long as the weight is properly distributed.:)
     
  9. Mike J

    Mike J Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the way the excavator is loaded in the pic the machine is almost in the middle of the trailer with the boom facing out the back. That puts a lot of weight on the tongue. The main thing is to keep the weight distribution right no matter which way you load the machine. If the trailer is longer it makes it easier to put the weight in the right spot. With the boom folded up I think the center of mass is a little bit behind the center of the tracks. If you layed a piece of wood down or something and walked up on it and then see when the machine flops forward you could tell exactly where the center of mass is. Load the machine with that point about 15% of the way forward from the center of the tandems to the pintle hitch.
     
  10. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    I recently bought a lightly used 50K Overbilt tag trailer to pull a 160 behind a tandem axle dump truck. I am concerned about load height. I wish I had waited before buying the trailer. I am now looking for a lowboy, load off the back preferably. I have no need for a detach, nor do I want to spend the time hooking and unhooking. The Overbilt is a very stout trailer. The trailer thing can get confusing. I find it difficult to spend the kind of money they want on a trailer. I recently bought a Towmaster 18K capacity pull behind. Great trailer but it was about 9K and I picked it up from the factory. As a side note Towmaster and Felling are a short distance apart physically. Felling could certainly have branched from Towmaster.
     
  11. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    What kind of tag did you buy KSSS is it a beaver tail or a tilt trailer ?

    You think walking up a beaver tail on a tag trailer is bad try walking a excavator over the dove tail of a lowbed its a exciting experience especially if you have a machine that doesn't crawl properly. I have help load machines onto lowbeds where you can't see your depending on a spotter to tell you where to go. It can be unerving to say the least.

    Got any pics of the trailer ?

    Oh ya consider the cost to keep insurance on a lowbed and a truck tractor its cheaper in the long run to have a tag and tandem axle dump. Unless you plan on getting a 200 size machine try stick with a tag. Pretty well all the contractors here have gotten rid of lowbeds and use nothing but a tag cheaper and far easier.
     
  12. CascadeScaper

    CascadeScaper Senior Member

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    I had a buddy haul our 312 a couple times for us. He runs a beaver tail tag and let me tell you, scary stuff if you're not paying attention. I'd much rather load onto a tilt deck, just line up the machine, and run right up it, swing around and you're done. I don't see any advantage to beavertails whatsoever, only one I can think of is if you're doing a lot of work in the winter and ice/mud getting on the deck and tires/grousers would prevent you from getting up the tiltbed whereas a beavertail with steel ramps would grip pretty well. I wouldn't run a beavertail around these parts if I had the choice, they get hung up everywhere. We have a gooseneck that drags the arse all the time, I hate it.
     
  13. minimax

    minimax Well-Known Member

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    The advantage to beavertail is the axles are farther back on the trailer so you can get the axle weight right and you can load more than one machine on the trailer at the same time(like a skid and a mini or a dozer and a skid,etc,).

    minimax
     
  14. tylermckee

    tylermckee Senior Member

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    We move our 160 with a beavertail tag. As long as you keep it pretty level when loading and unloading i dont see why you guys think its scary? :confused: just run up the beavertail, and slow down a little as the machine flops down on the deck swing around and your done.
     
  15. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    Beaver tail tags are not bad its walking over a dove tail on a lowbed when your teetering on the trailer tires.

    The only benefit with a beaver tail tag is you can carry more stuff like attachements etc. The tilt trailer is the number one equipment mover for excavation contractors around here because they are quick and easy to load up.

    Unless your doing lots of lowbedding it might be worth while owning a 40 ton lowbed but otherwise thats a extra 3 grand a year for insurance then you have up keep.
     
  16. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    That's all I have ever used is a beaver tag and yes you do have to slow down to the slowest speed and just use gravity to get over the beaver with a heavy machine like 160 but no big deal. The rusty chains and binders is more of PITA if you ask me.
    kSSS is you sell you tag PM me.
     
  17. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Here is the Tag if the link works http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item/141513?do=1&h=4/9


    I don't mind going over the tires on a lowboy. Loading up a dovetail I don't find a problem. The low ground clearance on a lowboy can be a problem but so can having a 160 setting above the tires on a tag. The Overbilt is a very nicely built trailer. The suspension is awesome.
     
  18. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    Most of our tilt trailers here all run 22.5 lowprofile tires the deck height is usually about at my waist height about 36"s or so never measured its never been a problem for us. Clearance anywhere is 13'6" to 15' feet but if you have low bridges to deal with etc.

    The other problem with a lowbed is you get in a rural area you can't turn around so that means walking on a paved road and for us that means fines if we ever get caught. So you have a choice back up for miles or back in for miles with a lowbed. You get in a tight spot with a tilt trailer walk the machine off un hitch the trailer swing it around with the excavator turn the truck around hitch back up drive away.

    You want to know what is a little touchy is putting a 690LC Deere on a tandem axle tilt trailer its not legal but we do it. Pretty well most of the contractors have been in business for 30 years so doing things your not supposed to do is normal :bouncegri

    The loggers will put 50 tons or more on a tridem lowbed truck is grossing a good 160,000lbs.
     
  19. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    I joined Iron Planet to have a look at the link KSSS posted.

    If your trailer is the same as that one its got a lower deck height than the trailers we use I wouldn't be scared of being too high with that trailer it would be stable as can be. The beaver tail looks like it has a good slope to it so its easy to walk the machine up. I wouldn't be selling that to buy a used lowbed.