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Need some guidance:

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by 1693TA, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    It’s quite simple. To use an often overused quote.....” I’ve backed more miles under a trailer than some guys have pulled them forward” lol.

    Fixed 5th wheel is fine. Roller has to go because kingpin will hit on the way up as well as it will make the profile of your ramps so tall the neck with catch them in certain angles.

    Block goes under the neck after you have backed under it but before pulling away. Heel of the neck is still on the trailer so you’ll want it to slip in there with a little slack. As you pull forward the heel slides down the beam of the trailer and it’ll rest on the block.

    If you want the ramps to work as efficient as possible the roller needs to go or be relocated and the frame has to be cut to allow a nice gradual angle as well as getting them nice and low since you can’t dump. If they’re made right you don’t have to back under it hard. Get the trailer up and broke over on the flat part and then go easy until it latches in the 5th wheel.

    You could rig the trailer up to be pulled on with the winch like oilfield style but the kingpin probably isn’t removable so that’s one obstacle.

    I will have to do some digging but I think I have a template for the ramps I used to build. They are similar to Cozad which in my opinion are the best ramps out there.



    Several things to take notice of.....removable tails in case you have swing clearance issues or need to slide forward to get the weight up on the steer or pusher (not an issue for you)
    740196FC-A9BE-47EC-BA44-5156626BBD2B.jpeg


    Keep them above the tires but not so high the neck will catch them in a turn, also you want them close to the profile of the tire but need a bit of height to keep rollers or crossmembers off the tires

    445DDD6C-A7B7-4679-82F5-DA8BC2507344.jpeg


    This set actually had a part that slid with the 5th wheel. I even had spacers so I could leave it forward and unhook without sliding the 5th wheel loaded. Those trucks had a 60” slide.

    A3E9D4D8-0CD1-4D7A-A0ED-206AD7720A53.jpeg
     
    Nige, sl3406, GregsHD and 5 others like this.
  2. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    You can't see it in the photo with the hydraulic tail trailer but I had installed a nose roller on the upper deck that was almost flush with the deck. This allowed me to drag broken down equipment up the tail and into the well without destroying either the trailer or winch cable. There was also a 12K winch buried in the neck riser that I never used which was hydraulic driven and the motor was gone. 12K was a bit light for the requirements.

    Not against the riser idea at all and I'm certain the winch is mounted high enough on the tractor to clear the upper deck of the trailer. I'd wager something such as a simple roller at the horizontal to vertical transition of the neck allowing the cable to attach to the existing lifting bail would work well to adjust the height. This would require some kind of guide or restraint to resist the neck from wanting to pull off to one side during the operation. Chaining to the neck and tail guard would suffice for this if needed. Having not seen the trailer I really don't know how the fabrication is done in the neck so kind of guessing upon a plan at this time.

    The winch is currently mechanical, (PTO) driven but I have near everything to convert to remote hydraulic drive which would make fine positioning much easier.
     
  3. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for responding with the photos. Yous analogy sounds a lot like my thinking is. I was debating upon relocating the roller or doing away with it altogether but was undecided. Don't think I'll ever pull another mechanical folder so kind of unneeded for the purpose.

    I think I have enough room to extend the current risers another foot or so to protrude rearward of the frame a few inches. The idea certainly seems plausible. The king pin in the trailer I'm told is retractable? I don't know how this works and haven't seen one in person but that is what I'm told? I think the tail roller could be relocated between the risers and set a bit low for clearance. I use that winch quite a bit yet for dragging things out and about but it's always a straight line pull.

    Certainly are some good ideas floating here and a lot to digest. Really appreciate the help here guys. I'll be sure to update the thread as I progress.
     
  4. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

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    The "retractable" kingpin just drops down through a heavy wall tube. Once it locks into the 5th wheel it's not going any where.
     
  5. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    I asked for a few photos to post and here are a few of this trailer which needs the deck and some of the xmembers in the neck portion replaced. I'm told the 5th wheel plate needs replaced also. I've done a few of those in the past so don't reckon it will be much of a problem once opened up. Tires, drums and brakes are about two years old with limited usage as the prior owner had to quit running after falling on hard times:
    upload_2019-8-13_8-44-1.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_8-44-25.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_8-45-50.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_8-47-35.jpeg

    I had asked for a photo of the neck hanging detached from the trailer but he forgot to snap a photo of it. I'm told the tractor in the photos is air ride suspension.
     
  6. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    Few more:

    upload_2019-8-13_8-58-6.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_8-58-39.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_8-59-51.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_9-1-30.jpeg
     
  7. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    How much you want for the flip-axle?
     
  8. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    I actually want to keep the flip as I anticipate a need. I'll get the one of the fixed axles to lift to save tire wear too.

    Thanks,
     
  9. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Other than paint it doesn’t look too bad. Whoever spec’d it did ok. 17.5’s, key slots in the top flange and double donuts are some handy things to have.

    You may know this....keep those little brakes greased up good. They’re the most temperamental drum brake I’ve ever dealt with!!
     
  10. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I see stake pockets all down the sides, but I guess I can't see the key slots in the top flange? What's a double donut?
     
  11. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks kindly. This is a new adventure for me. I'm assured the trailer is sound but does need xmembers in the neck and the 5th wheel plate replaced from being thin. The balance of the trailer was looked over pretty good with the neck off and the deck resting upon it:
    upload_2019-8-13_16-21-32.jpeg

    All wiring is new and lights are LED units in a weather sealed harness.

    My other trailer has 15" tires with the 12.25" brakes but it's old enough to not have spring brakes, (1973) and you are very correct about keeping everything greased. Don't know how many times I've taken off with that trailer dragging a brake. I wound up rebuilding the trailer brake system complete because of that.
    upload_2019-8-13_16-34-19.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_16-35-18.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-13_16-43-30.jpeg

    This trailer has new drums, shoes, hardware, auto slacks, cams, and bushings. I understand he lost a wheel seal destroying an axle end and having a mobile repair service install a new stub. This has been several years ago so must be a sound repair.

    All of the fold out arms for the overwidth loads are in the center tool box of the floor. I'm told they are all there.
     
  12. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    After closer inspection what I thought were slots are stake pockets.

    The double donuts are the paddles on the neck that slip over the pins on the deck. There’s a longer center to center on one to get a little lower deck height.
     
  13. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    Thank goodness, its been hot today and yesterday, so I was worried I was missing something.

    Are these all separate pieces with just two holes, or are they a single piece with three holes that you flip each way?

    trailer neck marked.jpg
     
  14. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Two holes on the bottom are your choices. Top is captive by a plate welded to the pin.
     
  15. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    Would like to have had this trailer but a bit heavy for what I needed:

    upload_2019-8-14_7-29-26.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-14_7-29-52.jpeg

    Trailer was not mine but one brought to the shop for repairs. Wanted to give it a little workout prior to going back into service so loaded up my old "Yard Dog" and went for a spin.
     
  16. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    I did not purchase this trailer as it is MUCH worse underneath that was either known, or worth working with. It had spent it's entire working career in the northeast part of the USA and Canada and was totally eaten up by rust in the main beams under the decking. The front rear axle had actually broken free from it's mountings but you couldn't tell till laying on your back looking at it from the side.
    As it still pulled straight the owner was going to run it through a "Richie Bros." auction to be rid of it.
     
    barnbuilder likes this.
  17. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    So just for discussion, I watched a truck guy shorten a frame on a long chassis truck by removing the structural members and then cleaning it all up, changed over to air ride tandems as well. Whole set of drives from a junk yard with the frame attached, used the existing frame as a drill template and had all the air ride bits bolted up in an afternoon. Made it sound like there are truck wrecking yards full of suspension/axle sets just stacked in a pile.
     
  18. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    There's all kinds of cut off's out there. They aren't free, but not horribly expensive either if you want something different than what you have. Last full cut off I bought was $2,500.

    It mostly depends how much work you can do yourself, vs. if you have to pay a shop to do it. Stretch or shorten frame rails. Dump truck guys by me pull air ride out of over the road trucks, to go to spring ride. There are other guys going the other direction, pulling old spring ride set ups from old working trucks, and putting newer style air ride in them, to ride smoother on the way to the truck show.

    Invariably, whatever you have, is not what you need, and you can't ever find the guy going the other direction, so you can just swap components with him. This is why I have a set of 3.55 Rockwell gears on a pallet in my shop. :)
     
  19. 1693TA

    1693TA Well-Known Member

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    He purchased what is known as an "air ride cutoff" from a truck salvage yard. It is entirely possible to do the swap in an afternoon if the installer is proficient, experienced, and has the correct parts to do the swap quickly. I've long lost count how many I've done over the years. In the case of Mack, many frame widths were 33.5" outside to outside. If a 1/4" rail thickness on the donor such as many Peterbilt trucks used and their rail width is 34", (pretty standard) the donor stubs, (Peterbilt in this case) will slip right over the Mack, (again in this case) rails for a perfect pattern. With the support members, (cross members) removed it is pretty unencumbered to drill holes through the Mack rails using the Peterbilt rail holes at templates. Of course you would need to measure and adjust frame rails to what you want your final wheel base to be. Weld the frames both inside and outside of the splice and add supporting structure to ensure a safe and strong modification and all should be good.
     
    Tenwheeler likes this.