Need gps/ machine control help

[sundanceexp]

Hey everyone, i have a small excavation company and I want to get setup with automatic machine control be it either gps or laser, im used to lasers but have no clue on gps, ive been looking on line for used gps equipment as i do not have the money to buy new. I have been looking at trimble site vision ms860 equipment but know nothing about it, everything is there except for the hydraulic hoses, valves, etc to hook it up to the machine. My question is where can I get the valving, hoses, etc or can that equipment even be hooked up for automatics? The antennas are different than the newer stuff they are thin and 13" diameter and squar in the middle, they arent the smart glonass, but does that matter what is the difference? Any and all help would be great.

 

[Harry Comes]

The Sitevision software is old, and out dated and cannot be repaired. What type of machine are you putting it on? You will have to have the machine wired/plumbed and measured up in order to have the system work correctly. You should contact your local SITECH (Trimble) dealer. He can help you out with what's needed for your machine. Dual laser systems are much more affordable than full GPS automation on a dozer, and do a great job at slopes and flat pads. If you are looking at something for an excavator, the Trimble Flex system is an inexpensive (compared to full GPS) system that uses much the same components as the full GPS system (control box, sensors, plumbing) and can be upgraded to full GPS down the road. I'm not a salesman, but I deal with machine control on a daily basis. Another thing to think about is the shape of the machine you are putting the machine control on. If it needs bushings and is loose, you will never get the acurracy you are looking for.

 

[pondo]

Hey. I took intro 3 day course...3 days no pay as I am owner operator
Unless I missed something big...
GIS /gps machine controls requires that that drawing be "data processed" on each and every job at a cost between $500 to $1500.
So unless it's a really big job much cheaper to us laser and tap measure.

 

[durtmvr]

Hey. I took intro 3 day course...3 days no pay as I am owner operator
Unless I missed something big...
GIS /gps machine controls requires that that drawing be "data processed" on each and every job at a cost between $500 to $1500.
So unless it's a really big job much cheaper to us laser and tap measure.

I would suggest that you purchase Terramodel and learn to build your own model. You will need to obtain a CAD file of the job and as with any job you will need a control file for your base positioning to get your model up and running. If you are grading between the curb, I would suggest staying away from GPS unless you are running MC2 Topcon. If grading between the curb or on tight tolerances I would suggest running a robot. I prefer the old BladePro 3d system due to the gun being used. I like the stability of the ATS600 and have found that the newer guns are faster and you can set them up closer to your machine without loosing lock, they are not as dependable and do not shoot grade as tight as a good calibrated 600. Having the 600 if grading between the curb you will shoot your existing curb (because curb is NEVER dead on plan grade) at lip of curb and use that data to develop a model. If you have a good model of the job you can easily smoke your production ratings versus what you could ever do with a sonar. Say 2x the production. Once the inspectors notice how tight your grade ALWAYS is with a robot they will never string your grade again. Around here they are getting lazy anyhow and just core the AC. If you have a low core running ATS it is easy to point the finger in the way of the pavers unless you did not build the model right

 

[durtmvr]

Hey everyone, i have a small excavation company and I want to get setup with automatic machine control be it either gps or laser, im used to lasers but have no clue on gps, ive been looking on line for used gps equipment as i do not have the money to buy new. I have been looking at trimble site vision ms860 equipment but know nothing about it, everything is there except for the hydraulic hoses, valves, etc to hook it up to the machine. My question is where can I get the valving, hoses, etc or can that equipment even be hooked up for automatics? The antennas are different than the newer stuff they are thin and 13" diameter and squar in the middle, they arent the smart glonass, but does that matter what is the difference? Any and all help would be great.

About the cheapest you are going to find will be your old setup. 13" U centered ground plane, possibly a MS850 or 860 base. You will need a rover and a data collector. I kinda like the 5800 rover. On Blade Pro 3d you are bound to running only one side of your board on automatic and cross sloping your other side. You will be off on the cross slope if you are articulated in a blade because the angles are all wrong or there is a very good chance you will be off in a super etc. I liked to hook up my 5800 on the opposite side of the blade somewhat as a checkin to make sure I was still tight with my cross slope going through these areas and freehand watching the data collector on the off side. You can find a bladepro system and put an upgraded card in the box that will update the main box to handle the 367-2000 computer box. This is pretty dated stuff but you can still do a lot with it and I have seen pretty cheap prices on the parts as of late because people are upgrading to better systems. You can find some 365-4010 sensors (2, one for mainfall, one for cross slope and you will need a rotation sensor if mounted on a blade. You will need a MS 850 controller if running a single ground plane (only option on the bladepro 3d) but I prefer to use the MS 860 controller (I had one bank go out of my 860 once and was able to finish the job on the opposite bank) because it can be used on a sitevision system where you are running 2 ground planes. One thing to note. The 367-2000 boxes take PCMCIA memory cards. They DONT like cards any larger than 64 MB. Most laptops I have seen these days do not run a PCMCIA slot, your best bet is to find a PCMCIA to Compact flash adapter and try to find 32 or 64 MB Compact Flash cards which will probably fit in your laptop. I have seen most of the major componets go on ebay for around 3k to 10k. However, you are gambling buying untested parts. I have done this getting a great deal then having to send them to a Trimble deal and have them troubleshoot the part and repair. It still came out cheaper than buying new but took some time to set the system up. You are going to need radios too. Trimble tries to push 900 MHZ radios on the construction market. I have found 900 MHZ radios to be inferrior to 450 MHZ radios. I would suggest running a 450, they are typically cheaper have greater range and more readily available however you will have to get an annual permit from our fine government to run them. Many of the cords and cables you can pick up on EBay. If you are handy with a soldering iron you can go to a good electronics store and purchase the "military" connectors and run your own wire and solder your own plugs or in many events repair a $500 cable for a few bucks (Groundplane cords always fail around the plug end. I have snagged them on trees, wasnt paying attention once and clipped one on my hoist cylinder and I've had the coax just plain wear out)

Glonass is found on pretty much all of the Topcon GPS. The newer Trimble is Glonass cappable. Glonass is the Russian satelites. GPS is more accurate with the more satelites flying in the sky more or less. Depending on what part of the country you are in, you can experience low quality grading times if there are not enough satelites flying overhead. I never found it to be a problem, I knew when these times were coming and went and rough graded during downtime.

I hope I didn't confuse you.

 

[durtmvr]

The Sitevision software is old, and out dated and cannot be repaired.

I agree with most of your quote but they are repairable. I had one repaired about a month ago.

 

[KyleM]

I wouldn't recommend purchasing anything without glonass.

You may not be able to currently purchase new gear but what about purchasing the install kits "machine control ready" and renting the expensive part (control box, receivers, radio). As you are a smaller contractor, you will likely not be using GPS all the time and this way you can start using the technology for a lesser price point.

Yes, all sites require a cad plan "drawing", I'd jump straight to Trimble Business Center, but depending on the quality of data that is being provided will determine the work to get it prepped. You will also require a base station and rover (used to create a calibration file).

Depending on your plans for the future and type of work will determine your best decision.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,