My new trailer kicked my (youknowwhat) today

[crane operator]

My new (to me) lowboy has been getting the once over before we load it up and use it. It's a 1996 talbert with pilot hub aluminum rims.

Picture is from on the way home with it, it needed bearings (yes- that's probably how it ended up at ritchie brothers, there's always a reason its on a auction).




While doing wheel bearings, I found a shot brake, with a pretty unevenly worn drum.

I went ahead and remounted the wheel, with rims and tires with the new bearings in, figuring I could then dismount the rims to get to the drum, then do brakes, and drum, and reinstall.

My 3/4 impact gun won't touch the lug nuts.

New 3/4" wright 42" ratchet (just got a few months ago and love it, no more short cheater pipes on a standard ratchet),wouldn't loosen them.

Next with 5' cheater pipe, torch heated nut (kept hand on aluminum wheel, making sure I didn't overheat it) no go, kept spinning the tires (trailer on axle, with wheel blocked).

Next with the wheel nylon rigged to the frame extension to keep the tire from spinning, and still not loose, I did manage to shear the drive head on my 3/4" extension (old usa made extension).

I don't know what they've tightened these lug nuts with, but I'm not a small boy, and me on a 5' cheater pipe will loosen most things, especially with a little heat. Aren't they only supposed to tighten to 400ft-lbs?

Don't have a 1" drive 33mm/1-5/16" socket, but ordered one, I've got a old 1" drive impact that I've never used.

Also have a torque multiplier 3/4" in 1" out, but I don't know if I'll keep it held, I thought I could get its handle down on the pavement, then put the crank to it, but I'm going to really be winding up the pressure.

Also debated repulling hub, torch off the stud heads from the inside, and drive them through.

Advice? (aside from don't buy old trailer's:Banghead)

 

[RZucker]

You are trying to turn them counterclockwise? Hub pilots are RH thread no matter which side of the truck or trailer they are on. Usually a super power 1/2" gun takes them off easily. Or some dip with a 1" gun has torqued them to the point the threads have galled to the point of being welded.

 

[lantraxco]

I've never seen anything less than a 1" impact used on those lug nuts and thimbles, to point of refusal. Tire trucks typically have their air set up to 150 psi in addition so.....

Rotation should be stamped in the end of the thimble, just to be sure.

If you don't know, the rule is if you only remove the outer like to repair a flat, remove outer wheel, tighten all thimbles for inner wheel, install outer wheel, snug up two or three nuts to align wheel, tighten lug nuts in a random cross pattern. YMMV

 

[RZucker]

I've never seen anything less than a 1" impact used on those lug nuts and thimbles, to point of refusal. Tire trucks typically have their air set up to 150 psi in addition so.....

Rotation should be stamped in the end of the thimble, just to be sure.

If you don't know, the rule is if you only remove the outer like to repair a flat, remove outer wheel, tighten all thimbles for inner wheel, install outer wheel, snug up two or three nuts to align wheel, tighten lug nuts in a random cross pattern. YMMV

"Hub pilot" "33mm socket" No inner nuts, no 1" gun normally required. Not a Budd wheel.

 

[crane operator]

Thanks guys, they aren't budds, and they are all rh thread, (learned about the LH thing long ago) they're just really tight. I actually had the dirty thought of just throwing new pads on it and leaving the drum alone. But I know some day, those tires will need changed (probably on the side of the road). And I'll trash the new pads on the worn odd drum. Sooo....

I'd rather fix it at the shop than on the side of the road. I'm thinking now I need to check all the other one's too. Anyone ever use one of those tire gear reducers like this:

https://www.toolsource.com/misc-c-3...cOiwIX1C_dy64KJqXbPvooXB6wvYXHi7OUaAss58P8HAQ

My torque multiplier is the standard snap on style:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-4-Tool-Di...-nm-4-1-Ratio-Torque-Multiplier-/262649874976

Think I'll get it stuck down on the pavement and bust them loose? or just have it ride up the whole trailer and come across and smack me?

 

[RZucker]

I think the vibration from a good impact wrench would work best. Just sayin'

 

[crane operator]

I just haven't ever had Pilot hubs be this tight. I've had budd's cause me problems (usually the inner nuts strip or turn or both), usually don't struggle with dayton's, but these are ridiculous. I'm about 6'6" 240, and I only made 1 nut screech, gave up on a couple others, before the 3/4" extension sheared.

Tried heat, hammering (impact gun and sledge), and I had my new ratchet flexing a little more than I like to see. Should have a 1" drive impact socket on Monday (thanks amazon), I'll try the 1" gun first (maybe the rattling will help), then probably give a crack at it with the torque multiplier, but I think I'm going to end up sliding the hub back off, and blowing off the heads with the torch and driving them out from the back side.

 

[Jonas302]

Get a one inch gun on good pressure with a big hose or stop by a tire shop and they will be loose before you can say "that was easy" A half inch gun is a good joke

 

[RZucker]

A half inch gun is a good joke

Never had a problem removing properly torqued hub pilot nuts with my 1/2" Aircat. And I do use a torque wrench to tighten them.
The OP's wheel nuts are rusted or seized from overtightening.

 

[lantraxco]

"Hub pilot" "33mm socket" No inner nuts, no 1" gun normally required. Not a Budd wheel.

I stand corrected, need my glasses cleaned, sorry!

 

[clintm]

been there done the same you problem didn't get the nut's hot enough make them cherry red. your are right better to do it at the shop instead of road side running late with a permit load and a lazy tire man

 

[old-iron-habit]

If they have been overtightened and stretched better replace the studs or they will snap at a bad time after the backtwist required to loosen them and then retightened. Wonder how I know that?

 

[Delmer]

Use some penetrating oil on the lugs, every one on the trailer. Now and twice on Sunday.

If you use anything besides an impact, put some weight on the top of the tire so it won't move. A couple ratchet straps compressing the springs on the other two axles might do it, alternately a porta power "boosting" the spring to put more weight on the axle you're honking on.

If they break loose, turn them just enough to get a shot of penetrating oil to the backside of the nuts, then tighten back and forth till they loosen enough if there's danger of seizing.

I'm skeptical of the first torque multiplier. The second style isn't as likely to come up and get you, because you're going to put enough weight on it, and it reduces the rotation at the same ratio it multiplies the torque. You should be able to break those studs off with a 1" setup. For your sake I hope the impact wrench does the trick.

"Get a one inch gun on good pressure with a big hose" The same applies to a 3/4" gun too. If you don't have a long enough big hose, add an accumulator with a short big hose direct to the gun, big fittings no quick couplers.

 

[crane operator]

Put a little penetrating oil on this morning, going to hit them again later today delmer, so I think I've got the twice on Sunday covered

Got my tools all lined up ready to go, just waiting on the mailman to show up with my 1" drive socket. I'm already running a 3/4" line for my 3/4" impact gun, and I've already got the air compressor cranked up (150psi). Airing up tires to 100psi seems to take forever if your compressors only set at 120.



I also found something I had forgotten about- A 1-1/2" drive airgun I picked up at the auction where I got the 1" gun. I threw it in the corner with the 1" drive gun, haven't had to hook either one up yet. I know I don't have a socket for it.




Also- the 3/4" extension that fell to the carnage yesterday- it was a snap on. I always feel worse breaking a good tool, than a cheap one.

 

[crane operator]

I win. 1" gun with a couple days of penetrating oil. Think the hammering did more than the oil, but WHO CARES IT'S OFF:bouncegri





Had to wait a couple times for the compressor to build back up. One nut took 3 times of hammering, waiting for the compressor to build back up, hammer till out of air, and waiting again, but it eventually came off.

I think it saw that torch hovering in the back, and knew I wasn't giving up.

 

[clintm]

did you get the other 5 set's off too go head gett'er done or you will think about them every mile you pull it and every night before

 

[crane operator]

It's on the list. I figure I can pull one nut at a time, anti-seize it, and reinstall. Then I know they will all come off. I also have a bent aluminum rim, i think they've had a double blowout somewhere along the line, the inner rim beside it is different from all the other rims.

I've tapped out a small ding, with a big hammer and a block of wood, but I'm afraid this one might crack if I go for straight.

You can kind of see it in this picture at 5'oclock. It's probably got a good 6" flat spot.



I think its going to become the spare rim and tire, and I'm looking for a rim to swap out. That bent one would just be a good excuse for someone to pull me over.

 

[crane operator]

Oh this trailer and me keep going round and round.

The detachable neck moves by cylinders on the top, and pivots on a 2 5/8"inch shaft on the bottom. Oh and there's a reason I know it's that exact size.:Banghead

It all started with trying to get the inner tower grease zerks to take grease. That's where it pivots, the outer fork arms have 1/2" bolts, holding the outside of the shaft stationary.

Won't take grease, so we removed the 1/2" bolts to see if we could get it to turn and clean it out to grease it.

We discovered that when the top cylinders are rolling, the bottom shaft was turning on one side, but not the other, so the shaft must be sheared inside one of the collar's where you couldn't see it, meaning we've been lucky these last couple trips.

I thought I'd heat a little, hit it once or twice with a hammer and pop it out.

It had other ideas, evidently Noah and his son's were the last one's to grease it, just after getting off the ark. The flood started it rusting together, and it hasn't stopped since.

I ended up cutting the center 3' of the shaft out. Then cutting up between the outer forks, and the inner tower, splitting it into four, 5 to 6 inch shafts trapped in collar's.

This is after it's split:







This is where I cut it to split it, I used a cut off wheel for 1/3 of it, then finished with a sawzall and oil, not fun.



This looks like it should have moved them, but even with heating the collar's up cherry, didn't budge any of the pins.

 

[crane operator]

I'm such a stubborn @#$%, I stayed till 11:00 last night fighting pins, I don't swing a sledge like I used to.

I ended up getting one pin out without torching the pin.





The other three were not so easy. I ended up blowing out from each end with the torch, making a relief hole, and then a slot to each side. Then I still had to drive out the remnants with a sledge, HARD.



I was out on a job this morning, but finished taking the last one out this afternoon.



I think a gas axe/ carbon gouge, would have been easier than the torch, but I don't own one. I tried my 250 amp miller stick welder (electric) all cranked up, I could get a hole going, but after a little bit, the breaker wouldn't take it.

It wasn't pretty, but all I need now is a shaft and we'll be back in business.

The biggest surprise was the shaft was NOT sheared. It was frozen up in the bushings, and when I would rotate it, the shaft was actually TWISTING with the torque. It's got 4 big cylinders up in the neck, and it picked the crane up and down, but I think we were on borrowed time.

 

[Rngrchad]

Well looks like the only thing your missing now is a flip axle there Super Trucker. Hope you get the stubborn girl back in tip top without much more trouble.