Mulching Heads for Skid Steer

[SMLWinds]

Guys-I have a new Cat 299D2 XHP I bought for mulching. I am looking at heads and would like some input. I have a larger forestry machine with a Fecon head (which is admittedly older) and have done a demo with an FAE head. Fecon is going to bring me a skid steer head to demo. I was planning to go with FAE but was using carbide teeth and recently had someone tell me that since we do not have rock where I live, that I would be better off running knives. Fecon seems to have an edge there since their knives are reversible (to my knowledge FAE's cost the same but only run half as long) plus you have to buy the adapters for the FAE head to run knives. I have never tried a Denis Cimaf head but am not opposed to it or others. Quite frankly, I want the best. Any thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated!

 

[Tones]

SMLWinds
The biggest problem you have got is not what mulch head to buy but what you have purchased to drive it. A lot of blokes rave about the Denis Cimaf but Fecon make a similar rotor. Other rotors Fecon make also can be fitted with a lot of different teeth types including knives and it doesn't hurt be adaptable as your work sites can/will change.

 

[BigWrench55]

Here’s an email address for a place that sells this type of stuff. The guy that owns the place is really knowledgeable and could tell all the in’s and out’s of the different brands of mulcher attachments. marcus@komachinery.com

 

[SMLWinds]

Tones-What is the issue with a Cat skid steer? Which brand(s) do you prefer?

As far as Denis Cimaf, from what I tell they make a "bite limiter" rotor that has the grooves so you can't bury the head. Fecon does make the same head. What would one want or not want a bite limiter head? Obviously it helps to not bog the head down, but what is the downside of the bite limiter style head?

Paul-I will shoot Marcus an email. Thank you!

 

[jon damon]

Being able to control the depth of cut in most wood processing applications keeps your rotor working at greater efficiency an at a more stable torque load.
If you consider the raker on a chainsaw tooth it is very easy to file down the raker to achieve a more aggressive cut until the chainsaw over cuts or kicks back aggressively or bogs the saws engine down. When the cutting edge wears below the raker height the saw will barely cut from lack of cutting edge exposure.
If this bite limiter you are referring to is implemented properly the machine will require less attention from the operator to maintain efficiency and not over work the machine as easily. It should also limit the tooth and holder from extreme contact with contaminants helping minimize damage.

 

[Tones]

Tones-What is the issue with a Cat skid steer? Which brand(s) do you prefer?

Cat seem easier to catch fire. The Kubota engine is giving problems inparticular the DPF system that no one knows how to fix. The same engine is used in Takeuchi CTL , same DPF issues there also.
ASV RT120 seem to get good raves and the DPF can be deleted after the warranty is done. I don't own any of the mentioned machines

 

[SMLWinds]

Thanks guys!

So, why would anyone NOT want a "bite limiter" style head like the Denis Cimaf or Fecon ribbed style? I can see the benefit, but since they still make other varieties I imagine there must be situations where that style is not preferred.

Seems all machines have their issues. I am told Cat has improved the cooling and most fires comes from improperly cleaning the machine and building up fuel (mulch chips) on it. The Tak's are also having issues with their turbo. A good number of their machines are blowing their turbo around 100 hours and it seems they aren't totally able to fix that yet either.

 

[f311fr1]

We have run a CAT 299D2 XHP for 2K hours. General dirt work and FAE mulch head, bush hog, trencher, graple bucket, concrete mixer, post hole auger, jack hammer and more with very few issues and none that we could not fix ourselves, knock on wood. The biggest issue with the CAT is where the hoses exit the body and go to the drive motors. You need to remove the black angle shaped guards and wrap the hoses with sheet rubber or some type of abrasion guard. We lost all four drive hoses one side at a time, due to rubbing in less than 1K hours. As for a knife style mulcher check out Gyrotrak in SC.

 

[Tones]

As for 299D2's burning Check out Forestry Equipment and Land Management on FB

 

[jon damon]

The ideal style head really depends on the specific material being cut.
Heavy wood use for example would be high load on the cutting tools and would benefit from the control of depth of bite.
If you were in light brush applications you wouldn't particularly need the bite limit since the load on the head would be much less and the head could potentially be more productive in lighter material with greater cutter exposure.
From a different perspective in a vine type or stringy material the bite limiter would also help prevent the head from wrapping the vines around the head . So think about your scope of use. I would rather have the bite limiting option built in since it will help in the learning curve you and your staff may experience.

 

[f311fr1]

Have you looked at the disc style mulcher such as AFE or CID?

 

[mx727]

Seriously consider the Cimaf head. The 180 matches with your machine. Outstanding service. They even fly a guy out to set up the head and tune it to your machine. You may think it's not necessary, but when you see the time and care that the technician gives, you realize it's worth it. They also include a second set of teeth and a large selection of tools, including a grinder to sharpen the teeth. The tech will show you exactly how to sharpen the teeth too. With everything that they provide, these heads aren't any more expensive than the other brands. Check out the above referenced FB page and the Cimaf owners group there too.

 

[SkinnyFast556]

So what do you guys think about buying the head and just renting the machine as needed? Could a person swap a mulch head such as the Cimaf 150 from skidstreer to skidstreer as needed with out having to do to much tuning or trouble shooting?? This is a option I’m looking in to..

 

[mx727]

So what do you guys think about buying the head and just renting the machine as needed? Could a person swap a mulch head such as the Cimaf 150 from skidstreer to skidstreer as needed with out having to do to much tuning or trouble shooting?? This is a option I’m looking in to..

It won't be ideal. When you buy a Cimaf, they send a rep to tune it to your machine. You also are going to be limited on machines you can rent. You need high horsepower, high flow with a demolition door. Any machine with a glass door is going to be a no go.

Now, if you are always going to rent from a place that has a lot of machines that fit what you need, then it could work fine. Some rental contracts forbid using the machine for mulching too.

 

[RTSmith]

Tones- I'm curious to see the page, but can't find it. Can you tell its exact name on FB? Thanks!

 

[Tones]

Tones- I'm curious to see the page, but can't find it. Can you tell its exact name on FB? Thanks!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1902847273286196/ This is a link

 

[mx727]

Tones- I'm curious to see the page, but can't find it. Can you tell its exact name on FB? Thanks!

There are a few. One is just general, but mulcher info shows up there. there are also the for sale forums as well as the Denis Cimaf end user forum.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/mulchermafia/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1543497582423940/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/skidsteer/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1858554851066259/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1929400537318560/

 

[KSSS]

Most of the "serious" mulching guys seem to use a Climaf head. I am assuming that their patent expired or others are going around it some how with the bite limiting drum design seems to be almost common now. I use a Tushogg mulching head, with asphalt teeth. We have a lot of lava rock here and so this head is perfect for me, although it is not efficient in cutting, takes more power. The newer Case machines have been good on running it, because of the rather inefficient teeth, the hyd. will get warm if you go over relief a lot. But I don't do it everyday and for what I need my set up works well. I am surprised that CAT has yet to address those hoses coming out of the body and into the drive motors. Guys have been complaining for years over that, it would seem to be an easy fix, but for whatever reason CAT does not seem willing to address it.

 

[mx727]

Most of the "serious" mulching guys seem to use a Climaf head. I am assuming that their patent expired or others are going around it some how with the bite limiting drum design seems to be almost common now. I use a Tushogg mulching head, with asphalt teeth. We have a lot of lava rock here and so this head is perfect for me, although it is not efficient in cutting, takes more power. The newer Case machines have been good on running it, because of the rather inefficient teeth, the hyd. will get warm if you go over relief a lot. But I don't do it everyday and for what I need my set up works well. I am surprised that CAT has yet to address those hoses coming out of the body and into the drive motors. Guys have been complaining for years over that, it would seem to be an easy fix, but for whatever reason CAT does not seem willing to address it.

I don't believe the patents have expired. They just won a motion against Fecon in their infringement case. They have licensed the patent to some, others may be doing things different enough to avoid infringement, and others are hoping to get away with it. The bite limiting is only one factor in why Cimaf is the industry standard. Denis Cimaf was the standard before they had the bite limiting design. The solid build and customer service are the really big parts of the deal. When you buy one of their heads, they fly a tech out to you to custom tune the head to your carrier.

The CAT head is an FAE. Bobcat was made by Fecon, not sure if that is still true.

 

[Mbar]

To some of you guys that are running the cat 299d2 what kind of coolant temps are you seeing ?