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Mulcher Head on Tigercat Tracked Buncher?

Discussion in 'Forestry Equipment' started by Chopper95, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    Haven't been on the horn yet with Tigercat or bigger dealers to get the facts straight, but how much of a project would it be to get a 4,000lbs 56" (give or take) mulching head operational on a tracked buncher like the 830? Pump swap? Computer reprogram? I know they used to offer an 822 with mulcher from the factory several years ago.

    I have zero experience with Tigercat bunchers, just their wheel mulchers and have been happy with the product they put out. Would like to stay with the brand if possible.

    Was originally thinking about a Timberpro since those are the majority of excavator style machines I see running the mulchers / hear good things from operators and owners / have talked to dealers and know it can be done. Any advantages with a Timberpro over TC in this application?

    Hoping to get an excavator type machine or TC 480 tracked machine this upcoming Spring.
     
  2. Skeans1

    Skeans1 Active Member

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    Why not a wheel timberpro machine with a buncher boom so it can carry a fire tank in the dry season well mulching? A timberpro you can also normally get a more custom machine for the application vs any of the other manufacturers.
     
  3. 245dlc

    245dlc Senior Member

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    I'm assuming this machine already has a 'hotsaw' type buncher on it? Really what it comes down to is the GPM and pressure that the hydraulic system is putting out. I don't have any experience with feller-bunchers, at least not yet. However I regularly run a 2006 Hitachi ZX160LC that had a high-flow pump installed to run a Promac 36" CMP brushcutter. We also have a Kobelco SK210LC that runs a Promac 48" flail mulcher and the only mod it required was a case drain.
     
  4. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    The main difference between the 822 and the M822( purpose built mulchers) is engine horsepower. The 822 will have a 6.7 liter where as the M822 has a 9 liter. The mulcing pump and the saw pump with be different displacement. I have no knowledge of how the 830 is set up. I can tell you on the M726d rubber tire machine there is the option to run mulcher or saw head . The pump has an electrical displacement control that provide 80cc/rev when in saw mode and 140cc/rev in mulcher mode .
     
  5. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    Cut trees, dig holes
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    245dlc:
    Yes on the hot saw. Would like to pick up a 830C in a perfect world, sell the disc saw and put a mulcher head on. Probably a DAF DAH-150er or Fecon Bull Hog. Talking to the Timberpro guys they have made it clear that the 71cc brush pump is needed on the machine beforehand, otherwise it can be put on, but they say its a $10k job. Lots of pairing to be done between pump and head when looking at flow.
    On the wheeled machines pumps have to be swapped between a buncher and mulcher machine, no universal pump for either head. Same deal with the Timberpro, so that's why I asked about the TC 830. Hopefully it's something easy if any modification is required.

    Skeans1:
    My original idea was to get a Timberpro 630 with a mulcher (Bejac in Sacramento is currently putting one together, but everyone is holding their breath to see if it will even work well), and after talking to the engineers at Timberpro, the larger 8x8 carrier doesn't help my situation. I don't work fire contracts with the mulchers, and that 8x8 with the tanks is a BIG machine and would be a pig to maneuver on my usual jobs.
    I've already moved my consideration for the 630 to just getting a tracked carrier, opens more doors than the 630.
     
  6. Skeans1

    Skeans1 Active Member

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    Before getting an 8 wheel harvester I ran a track harvester with a fixed head, that said my wheel machine will out climb the track machines that aren’t on a tether line it’s down right impressive going up 75 to 80 percent ground unlocked with just tracks on the tires.
     
  7. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    partsandservice:
    Thanks for the info on the M versus the regular 822. Are the arm assemblies different as well? It looks like the boom and stick are both elongated when I look at the M.
    I would probably take a M822 if I could find one, but I don't think theres hardly any out there from researching. So looking at new machines, I'd prefer one with tilt functions.

    Skeans1:
    I'm sure that baby will get up some hills with that sort of wheelbase and being tracked up. Do you have a bunk or anything on the rear half of the machine? When I talked to Timberpro about the 8x8, they said the 6x6 would be better with how the rear half is designed and my lack of not needing a bunk, clamshell, etc would make the 8x8 less stable when working with the mulcher at reach.
    We run chains on 2/3 of our wheel mulchers, otherwise you wont have a prayer getting up much of anything if it's even just damp out. Also tired of dealing with chains in general. Im usually by myself and don't have a crane on my truck, so things get interesting sometimes. Do the tracks stretch or pretty easy to keep on?
     
  8. Skeans1

    Skeans1 Active Member

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    Skeans1:
    I'm sure that baby will get up some hills with that sort of wheelbase and being tracked up. Do you have a bunk or anything on the rear half of the machine? When I talked to Timberpro about the 8x8, they said the 6x6 would be better with how the rear half is designed and my lack of not needing a bunk, clamshell, etc would make the 8x8 less stable when working with the mulcher at reach.
    We run chains on 2/3 of our wheel mulchers, otherwise you wont have a prayer getting up much of anything if it's even just damp out. Also tired of dealing with chains in general. Im usually by myself and don't have a crane on my truck, so things get interesting sometimes. Do the tracks stretch or pretty easy to keep on?[/QUOTE]
    Mine is a true harvester a JD 1270, and even our old Timberjack 1210B with tracks empty will do that sort of ground. If it was me I’d put a 500 gallon tank on the rear of the machine you never know when you’ll need water or where it might be a good way to transport tanks around like the pipe guys do. 8 vs 6 I’ve only ran a 6 wheel for a bit but there’s a huge difference between them in traction and stability.
     
  9. Plebeian

    Plebeian Well-Known Member

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    Depends on whose 'tracks over tires' that you are using. A point is to deflate the tires a bit and then pump the tires up to get the 'tracks over tires' tight. Yes - tracks over tires wear and stretch so remove links etc to get them tight again.

    Look at the 'tool' hydraulic oil volumes of the machines for hydraulic mulchers and how much cooling to reduce heat build up. Tracked carrier tiger cat mulcher 480b is 78 us gallons. tigercat LX 830D is 54 Gallons. tigercat lx870d is 80 us gallons LX is closed circuit hydraulics for more pressure to climb slopes with.

    eltec have started making tilt machines - cummins engines, 75 gallons - hydraulic tank. Larger cab than most.

    Important to compare the electrical layouts.
     
  10. 245dlc

    245dlc Senior Member

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    Yeah I think the boss said it was about $15,000 to get the 160 set up to run the brush cutter head. I have seen some videos with the Timberpro bunchers equipped with mulchers and I have to say I was very impressed. I wish we could get enough mulching work to justify a machine like that even a used buncher is quite pricey. I'm partial to Promac largely because they are Canadian and because they have been so good with parts and service not to mention how hardy their equipment is.
     
  11. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    I've been following Eltec for a little while now, was nice to see someone new enter the market. I had considered looking into their machines, but I'm not sure my wallet could make a new machine like that happen.

    After throwing the 630 idea out I was mostly convinced to go with the TC 480 since it puts 400hp to the head whereas the wheeled models do about 200hp and I have troubles in thick brush with our older machine. 2017 480 w/ 400 hrs is $435k, older model T3 Cummins is around 250-300k. New Timberpro is 600K...

    245dlc:
    I just saw that video the other day and had never heard of that brand head, but it looks like they make good products. Would love a setup like that, just with a zero tail machine since our jobs get tight usually.
    The bunchers aren't cheap, even used... best case I'm hoping to get a machine set up for 250-300k, but you need the work to justify it..
    Everyone I've talked with about the TPro is very happy with the machine, a guy down in NM has one set up with a mulcher that I need to get down and try.
    Ironically was talking to a guy selling a 735 TP buncher and had replaced it with a new 830D.
     
  12. 245dlc

    245dlc Senior Member

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    Yeah Promac for many years has been a main stay in most of Canada the disc style mulcher that we mostly run can handle some large trees quite well. For example I mulched or we call it 'brushed' about 2 miles of drainage ditch across country with some trees ranging up to 18" at the base and probably around 40-50 feet tall in January when our weather was at its coldest nearly -40F. At this temperature it takes quite a while to warm up the hydraulics by cycling your various functions in and out. The brushcutters even with a mulching disc instead of the bush hog type mower blades (I call them the propeller attachment) have been the most popular in the Great White North but are kinda messy in comparison to the fixed tooth drum style mulchers. Our Promac flail does a nice job but is better suited to finer brush and doesn't spray debris everywhere like the disc but it won't grind big trees like the fixed tooth mulchers. I looked in to a 48" Promac drum mulcher and they were asking $50,000CAD. Double what the disc mulcher was. I think he paid about $30,000CAD for the flail. I'd be interested to see what you end up with. Some video from a power line job we did a couple years ago in the late fall.


     
  13. Plebeian

    Plebeian Well-Known Member

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  14. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    Well I got ahold of the owner who has 2 out of the 3 or 4 TC 822 mulchers ever made and he loves the machines to say the least, however, he ordered both new from the factory, so he had no suggestions on converting a 830 buncher. The boom configurations are definitely different as well between the 822 buncher and mulcher after seeing photos of his machines.

    Does anyone know what the pump output is on the new LX830D, or even the older C model? I've been looking at spec sheets, but I can't find the value anywhere. 822 owner said his pumps are 80 GPM.

    And for the guys up north, do any of you have input on the Dennis DAH style heads? Was looking at the 150er with tilt function and seemed like a slick set up. Hear the finish product is nice when running that knife style. Also was looking at Fecon DCR style rotor with knives on a Bull Hog model. I'm sure the knife style teeth wouldn't last a second in the rocks, even our carbides take a beating, but if you're running an excavator and can actually see what you're doing, hopefully not hitting to many.

    Would love to go Tigercat, but it looks like new machine is the consensus I'm getting from dealers and operators. Not sure I'm ready to drop that coin. Could get a Timberpro in good shape with a head up and going for half the cost...
     
  15. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    I must know the guy that has the other two, or maybe the same guy?
     
  16. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    JPV Mulching out of Georgia.
     
  17. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    Yes, I do repair work for him from time to time.
     
  18. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    Nice guy, very appreciative that he gave me the time to hear about his experience with machines and heads.
    Sounds like the 822s have basically been troublefree for him.
     
  19. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    I have done very little repair to the 822s. I have spent a lot of time with the m726d. But that machine has about 14k hours on it. Amazing for a mulcher. Also the Daewoo with powerpack. Does he still have the videos on his website?
     
  20. Chopper95

    Chopper95 Well-Known Member

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    I spend almost everyday in a 726D with around 5500 hours; tractor is holding up alright, Fecon is needing TLC again, but I'm ready for a new machine (even the older E model is significantly quieter and more insulated). Couldn't imagine one with 14k on it...

    He said the Daewoo is a powerhouse and even makes the TC look bad, but the double engine, double maintenance, double everything $$ is not worth it and wouldn't recommend. Amazing to find out he actually engineered the Denis Cimaf heads and then sold them. Obviously he loves them.

    Didn't see any videos on the website, but there are some floating around YouTube.