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Moving 21000# with Ram 3500.

Discussion in 'Equipment Moving Questions' started by Sturgill, May 17, 2018.

  1. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Well have a commercial vehicle in an accident overloaded beyond the MFG ratings and this guy or one just like him, will take your insurance company to the ropes
    Alexander-Shunnarah-lawyer.jpg .

    The lawsuit won't affect you immediately as your insurance company will settle with this weasel and drop you, however it will affect your insurance rates the following year when you have to find another carrier.

    Business and subsequently insurance is akin to gambling - how much risk are you willing to take for the reward?

    One might go throughout their life and never have to deal with an accident and a lawsuit or you might find yourself smack dab in the middle of one. Which side of the dice do you trust?:cool:
     
    Crummy likes this.
  2. lumberjack

    lumberjack Senior Member

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    Being sued after a wreck is common, at fault or not. I’ve never heard of the weight of the vehicle being in excess of mfg ratings ever being a factor. Weighing more than your license allows, bridge law, tire, etc are common factors in a lawsuit.

    Our insurance settled for $7k when we (wife) were sued for a not at fault wreck. The premium for that vehicle went up 30% at renewal.

    Look at Werner’s judgement, and it reads like they had no fault if someone had common sense. (Vehicle lost control, crossed the highway and hit the Werner truck head on).

    I’ve had this discussion with my insurance agent and my wife (also an insurance agent), I’m not worried about it. If you’re in a fatal wreck in a commercial vehicle, expect to be sued.
     
  3. redneckracin

    redneckracin Senior Member

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    Why take the risk? Any competent ambulance chasing lawyer will tie you up in court. The biggest hook is negligence. By exceeding the rated specs you are being negligent. You should have known better and you did it anyways. Good luck explaining that away in court. Arguing this stuff is fruitless and is going to end up going nowhere. You have your opinion and I have mine. I try and follow the law as best as I can and I sure don't encourage Billy Big Rigger to haul more than the manufacturer recommends. Are you Able to do it safely? Possibly. I have no idea. Should you recommend every amateur who is reading this to do it? Ah, No. Just my $.02
     
    CM1995 and JPV like this.
  4. Old Doug

    Old Doug Senior Member

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    The way i use electric trailer brakes can i stop this load without them if i had to ?I work in a shop thats next to a gas station i see all kinds bad loads. It makes you a beliver in a higher power looking out for dumb people and me sometimes.
     
  5. Georgia Iron

    Georgia Iron Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Concrete building slab and grading contractor
    Location:
    Marietta, Georgia
    Well yes and no.... you can stop it but your stopping distance is increased greatly.

    So for instance if you were going down hill the load would push the truck and i would guess your stopping distance increases by 4 to 5 times what it normally is on a hill or not. If my trailer brake stop working with my f250/tl150 the machine can almost push the truck down a hill and the truck does not want to stop with out giving it all the pedal you have... you can feel the tires wanting to break free of the payment really easy to test just leave the trailer disconnected and give it a try...

    If my brakes start acting up and I am in a 45 mph zone for instance my following distance increases by 400' ft normally at least. I cut my speed in half on hills...

    Once your hitch get sloppy from pulling lots of loads the grounding becomes an issue and the brakes may or may not always work... even if grounding through the plug on the trailer harness. Some times they pulse.. or flicker

    my f550 with dual tires handles a loaded trailer much better with out trailer brakes but even it is affected... its brakes are much larger than a 350/3500 style truck

    The average driver has no understanding of the danger of loaded trucks.. around here they jump in front of you as fast as they can even when coming up on a red light. It is a very bad feeling to approach an intersection with a load in a dump truck and realize the dump truck is not going to be able to stop for the light and you are going through it and what ever is in your way... I had that happen to me at a red light at a bottom of a hill. Loaded.. All at 20 mph.. I went in between cars crossing as the air horn was sounding and one driver in the crossing traffic never attempted to yield. I had to change lanes to miss him and dam that is what makes you never want to get in a dump truck and drive in traffic.. Maybe making a $100.00 carrying a load of dirt is not worth the risk....

    not that it is related to this thread... but on my dump truck there is a brake valve body on the firewall that controls where air goes when you step on the pedal.. inside of it is a piece of rubber that is round and flat... it is fairly thick... when it gets old it can start to tear in the middle or just split... when you push the pedal your brakes work fine... when loaded and you really hammer the brakes it will open and full air does not go to the brake system.... your stopping distance will increase the larger the split is... I did not figure that out until i ran by a stop on a downhill road, i began braking a 1/4 mile before... to the point that the spring brakes engaged...after i had driven by my stop 250' later... if this occurs you will hear a whoosh type sound when you brake.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  6. Theweldor

    Theweldor Senior Member

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    Western, NY
    I used one of those junction boxes on my truck. When I had all the wiring done I packed it with red grease. Here in New York the salt is the killer of all wiring!
     
  7. Jumbo

    Jumbo Senior Member

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    Well, to start with, Dodge/Ram 3500 with all the towing bells and whistles is only rated for 31,2000. so, already you are 3000 over the approved towing rating. To be honest, in the past much was over engineered and was capable of doing more than it was rated for. With CAD, everything is right on the nubbins for cost and weight for fuel efficiency. I would never haul it, the concern in the back of my brain would always be am I controlling the trailer or is the trailer just waiting for the moment to let me know it is controlling me. Your photo showed a nice clean dozer, will the next photo show a dozer with 1000 pounds of mud on it along with a few more tools riding on the trailer because there is so much "extra space?" I would bet a year from now, you run across a scale and the package weighs an additional 2-3000 pounds. It is just the nature of the beast.
    If you have a dozer, I can only assume you have a dump truck or some such, why not haul it with that? If you don't have a dump truck, you soon will I bet.
     
  8. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Wouldn't even hesitate to pull that. I've grossed 35,000 with my Ram 3500 numerous times, at no time does it ever feel unsafe. I gross 30,000 on a regular basis and would be dumbfounded if anyone would consider that weight unsafe. I've been cut off horribly, and it will stop on a dime. The new trucks stop so well with bigger brakes, downshifting autos, exhaust brakes, etc then trucks even 10 years ago. The trailer should be capable of stopping the load regardless. I don't care if it's 5000 or 500,000lbs if the trailer cannot stop itself it's going to push the tow rig around.

    As far as liability for exceeding tow ratings, yea good luck with that. The only ratings that matters are tire, axle, etc etc.
     
  9. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    I must be really lucky. I bought my 09 with dual 10k 3 years ago and other then replacing battery I have not touched a single part of the wiring, replaced a light, etc. Wiring has been all redone for sure, but was obviously done right. My biggest gripe with the trailer is leaking axle seals. Thankfully been catching them before it takes out the bearings.
     
  10. Willys53

    Willys53 Member

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    Location:
    Modesto Ca
    Here in California we haul at gross weight of 35,000 all day ,and more at times with Ram 3500 chassis (14000 gvw) and tandem dual trailers (24000 gvw). The CHP will stop us to check things and sends us down the road. We always maintain the brakes (elec /hydraulic ) and feel safe doin it. Any trucks over 14000 gvw here fall into a different set of laws that we dont need.
     
  11. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    I gotta feel that the numbers are so conservative from the MFG's Any time you tow there is risk, its up to you to mitigate and plan for that risk. My old F250 (89) has 500k miles, and semi floating axles, for years it hauled around a 3.5 ton sand spreader, had to add leafs front and rear to get it to ride right, still all original save for twisted drive shafts. My F350 dually (99) towing a 5th toy hauler is over gvw as soon as the trailer is hooked, its rated for a gvw of 11k and its 8800 empty and 750 pounds over gross and its not even on the helper springs yet. I've towed cross country with the 250 at 26000 pounds. Just drive like the brakes don't work and leave a really good following distance.

    I will say to give myself a fighting chance, I've upgraded the trailer to 12k axles with hydraulic disc brakes, the electric over hydraulic system does have a short lag, less than half a second, but once they start clamping, its like Atlas himself has latched onto your trailer and welded it to the earth.

    My mini and trailer, lessee, trailer used to weigh about 6k before new axles and the mini is 16k, so 22k and it tows like a peach with a dually. I'm not sure I'd want to subject a 250 to that unless it was kansas.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 11:45 AM