1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Michigan 75A no forward travel

Discussion in 'Wheel Loaders' started by Burnt.Fingers, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    I'm sure there's much worse than this one to yank out,
    pretty sure with the hoist setup I've got, stuffing it back up in there will be the same juggling around i had to do to drop it, only in reverse.
    The weight is balanced real good on the hook.
    Planning to scrape, clean and degrease the housing thoroughly before I open it up over the weekend.
    20200821_181428.jpg
     
    DMiller likes this.
  2. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Gee the R30, R35's we had were easy to drop the transmissions on. Well as long as the truck was running enough to raise and pin the box! They were all remote mount transmissions. Basically pull input and output drive shafts, disconnect the retarder oil lines, the shift and parking brake linkages, link to retarder handle, front and rear mounts and attach lifting bracket to top and lower down with overhead crane. Dang it almost ripped the converter temp gauge capillary line off! Remove that then your good to go!
     
    DMiller likes this.
  3. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,909
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Eucs depended on size, some were married to engine others were remote, most were buried in something else, and you had bed supports!! What were those back in the day!! We worked bed down most times as the idiots would blow a trans or clutch and then no hydraulics to raise machine anyway.
     
    kshansen likes this.
  4. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Yea direct mount like the M-30 Mack's were "fun" did them box down with chain jacks in and out.
    But we are getting off topic for Burnt.finger job:

    Just noticed this loader has a Waukesha gas engine, do you know the model number? I have a couple old Waukesha manuals. One is probably way too big F-817-G! Yea that's the displacement! The other is for the 140-145 Series those run any where from 525 cubic inches up to a 817 version but even those might be a bit big for this loader, not sure!

    One other thought do you know of a place to get parts for this machine? Seems I heard some good things about this outfit:
    https://www.minnpar.com

    They have many manuals to read on line as far as parts, could not see one I was sure was for your 75A but might be worth a look.
    https://www.minnpar.com/manuals.aspx

    Also have an old Motors Manual, remember those, it has a few spec's on a bunch of Waukesha engines not a lot of details but the basics like valve settings and timing.
     
    Burnt.Fingers and DMiller like this.
  5. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    The black sheep of the family!! :)

    20200822_122626.jpg 20200822_122525.jpg 20200822_122536.jpg
     
    DMiller likes this.
  6. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    DMiller likes this.
  7. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    Haha..oh its black alright!!
    like the color of blueing on a gun barrel.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  8. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    There are 10 clutch disc release springs in each pack.
    This matches the source of the metal found in the pickup screen.
    The fwd drum black from heat has a few broken springs.
    Most of the bronze clutches in the fwd pack are torn up with pieces of release spring embedded in them.
    Inner and outer piston seals are chewed up in pieces.
    20200822_132202.jpg 20200822_132235.jpg 20200822_132323.jpg 20200822_132306.jpg
     
    kshansen and DMiller like this.
  9. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Well guess that answers the question why it don't move forward!

    Have you checked any place on parts availability?

    With it sitting on the floor I'm hoping you are going to pull all the other clutches before committing to order parts. Would really suck to order all the parts for that clutch and then find out one of the others was close behind it ready to fail next month.

    I would also be putting all the broken bits of spring together to get an idea if you found all the bits.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  10. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    Right on Ken,
    I'll be pulling the other 3 packs apart to inspect the discs, drums and release springs and will need to replace those seals anyhow.
    The last group of photos you'll see the 10 release springs with the fragments out of the fwd drum, the remaining few tiny pieces are embedded in a few bronze discs, it's all there and accounted for, but I'm scouring everything everywhere, to be sure nothing's left behind that could tear a seal or wedge a valve once it's back together.
    All 4 packs are identical, I have a couple different original 75A parts books, those numbers for the individual clutch parts remained the same throughout and I was able to match up casting numbers and other stamped parts are matching my book so I'm confident I've got the right part numbers to order.
    Will likely call Minnpar this week and see what's available as well as work the phone to see what's out there.
    Although everything I need is right in your backyard over at Smith's and I'll likely head over there first and see if they're in a selling mood.
    Pull up Google satellite view and look in the pits off of stump rd & count loaders, I haven't done it recently but last time I did was over 30 not counting what's piled up inside buildings.
     
    kshansen likes this.
  11. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,909
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    IF Minnpar cannot do any good is another alternate
    Type in tge p/n: Michigan xyz123
    As a google search
    I have gotten lucky that way a time or two
     
  12. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    You mean this image? A little hard to say what all those little yellow bits are but would not be surprised to find a few good parts!
    Smity's.jpg

    Not sure if there are still some old B-model Macks there but know back when the quarry I worked for had one they wanted to get rid of many found there way over there!
     
    DMiller likes this.
  13. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    The loaders are all out in the pits, and the parts barn is by itself near the homestead.
    I dont recognize the pile you showed, that might be one of the boys places.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  14. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    Pulled the other 3 clutch packs apart.
    Fwd as you know was toast.
    2&4 all looks like new, with the seals intact.
    1&3 had 3 failed release springs with minimal clutch damage & both seals intact.
    Reverse had several spring failures that took out all of the sintered bronze discs along with the inner drum seal.
    Hard to believe it was moving so well in reverse with that kind of damage.
    Looks like I'll need 10-12 bronze discs,
    4-5 steel discs, inner and outer seals for all 4 pistons and of course 40 new release springs.
     
  15. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    I'm cleaning and inspecting everything in the transmission system for any leftover debris.
    Went to blow out the external oil lines that lubricate the clutches with filtered oil from the cooler.
    Line to the forward and 2nd& 4th clutches no air will pass thru which means there was no oil to those clutches.
    Line to 1st & 3rd is open so 1&3 was getting oil
    But line from 1&3 to reverse clutches no air will pass thru so reverse wasn't getting oil.
    These hoses are not standard hydraulic hose, they have a very tiny ID I'm assuming to control the flow to the clutches.
    No debris will come out of the hoses when I try to clean them or rod them out, it appears they're not plugged but they've collapsed.
    Its definitely not what I expected to find when I checked these hoses.

    20200824_125415.jpg 20200824_125405.jpg 20200824_125030.jpg
     
  16. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,909
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Nothing special except Old, any 1/4" or close ID line will be fine on this., line size matched to fitting size is normal and swelling internally happens.
     
    Burnt.Fingers likes this.
  17. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    Okay on the lines, the fittings from the cover to the quill are not sealed there anyhow and will overflow and looks like any extra oil in the clutch drum can just dump out the center gear into the cover and drain into the sump like it's supposed to.
    Thanks, I'll replace those 4 old lines with new 1/4".
     
    DMiller likes this.
  18. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    9,837
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Not being familiar with the size of the lines I would just look at the best looking on of the bunch and see what the I.D. of it is and just find some generic hydraulic hose close to that size. Some of the real old hoses had very heavy sidewalls for low pressure hoses.

    Just off the top of my head if you have a hose shop near by that makes up hoses I'd be looking at maybe a #06 hose in what they call a medium pressure single wire hose. I can just about guarantee that would be the last time you or anyone else would need to replace one of them!
     
    Burnt.Fingers and DMiller like this.
  19. Komatsu 150

    Komatsu 150 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    I've done it in the machine several times on ours. Not that hard. Usually if it works in reverse and not forward, it's the reverse clutch that's bad. pieces in between the plates. Been my experience anyway.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  20. Burnt.Fingers

    Burnt.Fingers Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Vienna, new york
    I gave it alot of thought, but when 3 out of 4 clutches failed the pressure test, I yanked it out and real happy I did.
    Forward, reverse & 1&3 clutch packs all have broken release springs that got loose & tore up bronze discs and torn up the inner and outer piston seals.
    Orings are leaking behind all 4 clutch bearing caps.
    I'll be able to do a much better rebuild out of the frame than I could have done leaving it in.
    The return lines from the cooler that lube the clutches were collapsed and not delivering oil.
    I'm not sure that caused the carnage but it sure didnt help.
    Now if I could just locate all the parts needed!!
     
    kshansen and DMiller like this.