metal particles in gear oil from final drives in takeuchi tl140

[Nige]

Hard to tell from the photo (the last one in Post #14) but is that bearing race pitted.?

 

[skata]

Hard to tell from the photo (the last one in Post #14) but is that bearing race pitted.?

View attachment 225075

It's just gear oil. It looks like water droplets though.

 

[skata]

So I put some large fishing magnets on the inside of the front covers. They are super strong and don't budge.
A drive specialist said the gears don't look too bad. Just to change the fluid more frequently.
And i came across CAT FDAO which caterpillar designed strictly for planetary gears. It's used in their heavy mining trucks etc. Exceeds TO4 oil.
I didn't want to put standard store bought 80w-90 or similar, since it didn't protect much.
I'll update next year some time when I change the fluid, and see if the magnets worked.

 

[Nige]

FDAO will likely be too heavy for this application. In a mining truck application the truck transmission is limited to 3rd speed when the oil is “cold” (less than 150DegF) because of the borderline lubrication properties of the oil at lower temperatures than that. Also bear in mind that mining trucks generally work 24/7 so this is not a major problem unless the truck spends an extended period on the shop. They normally stay warm for months on end.

Personally I’d suggest you would be better off with an SAE 50 TO-4 oil in your application.

 

[skata]

I'm sold on their literature. Lol. Factory fill for their large dozers too. When I use my machine, I mainly use it for backfilling, moving dirt, and tracking long distances. So I use it hard.
Sae 90 gear oil is equivalent to a sae 50 oil. So this being sae 60, shouldn't be much thicker. Guy at cat dealer was saying they use 85w-140 in the compact track loaders. How does that compare in thickness?

 

[Nige]

Sae 90 gear oil is equivalent to a sae 50 oil.

Not exactly. It's more equivalent to something around an SAE40 as a baseline.

Sae 90 gear oil is equivalent to a sae 50 oil. So this being sae 60, shouldn't be much thicker.

SAE 50 TO-4 oil viscosity @ 40 DegC is about 195 cSt. The same oil in an SAE 60 is 340 cSt @ 40 DegC - almost double. The figures below are for Mobil but all other brands will be within less than a couple of % of these number.

Guy at cat dealer was saying they use 85w-140 in the compact track loaders. How does that compare in thickness?

The difference in the 85W-140 is that it's a multigrade and when it's cold it will behave like an 85W oil, or somewhat akin to an SAE 30. Multigrade is an option that should be considered when running into the performance limitations of a high-viscosity oil during the critical cold starup & warm-up phases of machine operation.

Cat are talking about FDAO being factory-fill on machines that not only are many orders of magnitude larger than your track loader but also run 24/7 and therefore are rarely subject to cold starts like your machine will be every working day. As I mentioned before FDAO has some major caveats regarding operation on cold machine startup. I've worked with dealers and on job sites that have used FDAO since it was first introduced back somewhere around 2004. Believe me when I tell you that IMHO it's not the right oil for your final drives.



As a matter of interest what type & brand of oil are you using right now.?

 

[skata]

I have used mobil 1 75w-90, mystik 80w-90, and last time used lucas 80w-90 and 85w140 mixed 50/50 to increase viscosity. And every time I got flakes in the oil. So that's why I want to try something different.

 

[Nige]

My suggestion would be to go with a name brand 85W-140 and see where that gets you, especially now that you have torn into the finals and cleaned both of them internally.

 

[skata]

So from a quick search, the FDAO is almost identical in viscosity to a 85w-140 at 40c. But I don't see much info on cold weather flow. Maybe I should stick a cup of oil in the fridge and see if it gels up! Lol

 

[JTWAT]

I would do a used oil analysis on the old oil. Looks like oil breakdown to me. You should not see bubbles in the oil. Aeration of the oil will reduce lubrication. Replace worn parts and use a high quality synthetic gear lube. I use the Amsoil 110 wt. gear lube in my final drives and when I change it, the color is a little darker than new.

 

[skata]

I would do a used oil analysis on the old oil. Looks like oil breakdown to me. You should not see bubbles in the oil. Aeration of the oil will reduce lubrication. Replace worn parts and use a high quality synthetic gear lube. I use the Amsoil 110 wt. gear lube in my final drives and when I change it, the color is a little darker than new.

Did you see the video I posted in this thread? Wasn't much bubbles this time, but lot of metal. I've used mobil1 gear oil and lucas synthetic, and I believe valvoline synthetic once. Always metal coming out.
I put about an hour on this latest oil. Cat fdao. The magnet is working great. Oil is clear. Will change and check again maybe in the spring.

 

[JTWAT]

Good news, Keep a close eye on it. When gear teeth begin to gall, it usually continues due to the rough surface created in the initial failure.

 

[skata]

Well it's been about 100 hours since I filled with cat fdao oil, and installed the magnets. Old oil came out clean like new, some bubbles as expected. And a little metal on the magnet.
The magnets work excellent. Still getting a little metal wear, but it's very fine particles, and at least it's not suspended in the oil now.

 

[Gbarz]

Wondering how this oil is holding up to cold temps? What's the coldest this has been exposed to? Debating on grabbing a pail but I see temps below freezing almost all winter

 

[skata]

Wondering how this oil is holding up to cold temps? What's the coldest this has been exposed to? Debating on grabbing a pail but I see temps below freezing almost all winter

From a quick search, the cold weather pour point of sae 90 is 1 degree F. The pour point of FDAO is 5 degrees F. Not much of a difference.
Plus if the oil is thick when cold, just mashing it around trying to get it moving, should generate some heat to thin it down and flow better. But then again, I've heard guys filling leaking planetaries with grease, and having it last a long time. So I wouldn't be worried about cold weather.

 

[Simon C]

Also know a guy that has a Hitachi 200 with grease in his planetary for a few years now. Still runs every day for now.
Simon C