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Making a Cutting Edge

alaskaforby4

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
536
Location
Alaska
Occupation
Owner Operator
We burn through cutting edges on a pretty regular basis, typically we have to order them directly from Weldco Beales in Canada. They are $1050 for a 60" x 10" on our excavator buckets. We are coming up on maintenance season again and was wondering if any of you fine gentleman have ever tackled the project of making your own? Not sure what they are made out of, but could get my hands on some AR 450 or 500 pretty easily. I think the square cut holes could be plasma cut fairly easy, counter sinking them would be challenging.. Anyone ever do this, have any insight?thumbnail_IMG_0080.jpg thumbnail_IMG_4262.jpg thumbnail_IMG_2048.jpg thumbnail_IMG_8175.jpg
 

mitch504

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Feb 27, 2010
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5,776
Location
Andrews SC
What if you didn't countersink them? For that matter, what if you didn't make them square? Just used regular capscrews?
 

alaskaforby4

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Aug 3, 2010
Messages
536
Location
Alaska
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Owner Operator
What if you didn't countersink them? For that matter, what if you didn't make them square? Just used regular capscrews?

My only concern with that would be if the heads wore off rendering useless. I thought about welding the bolts in, but then when the time came to flip the edge around. I’d have to deal with with it..
I sure would like to see the process at the factory! I’m considering trying to gouge out a precise depth to counter sink a carriage bolt. But sounds messy and probably not as precise as id like. I guess maybe a mag drill 1st and then square cut?
 

Jonas302

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Jan 4, 2015
Messages
1,197
Location
mn
Possibly could countersink regular bolts probably need an old industrial drill press something slower and stronger than a mag drill to turn carbide bit of that size
Trying to freehand the cone for the head of a plow bolt and the square hole is just going to result in bolts coming loose and lost time
Have you priced out other brands of blades blackcat for example I know Alaska is different but I can do 12' for that price
 

56wrench

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Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
2,074
Location
alberta
there are suppliers that custom make cutting edges as per your dimensions. they were always cheaper than the oem like beales because that's who beales gets them from and then they mark them up. the outfit i used to deal with has had a couple of name changes so i don't know what they are called now. they were in Edmonton
 

alaskaforby4

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
536
Location
Alaska
Occupation
Owner Operator
Thanks for the replies, I’m sure I could find it cheaper somewhere. Maybe Im a glutton for punishment, but id like to try to make it!
I do have access to a Bridgeport mill where I could drill in the counter sunk portion. Any idea how the factory makes the holes? Do they do it before the steel goes through the hardening process?
Also any idea what type of steel is used?
Currently I need them for a 160 excavator and a 950 loader buckets
 

lantraxco

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Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,704
Location
Elsewhen
IPD? Deere? Deere used to have a nice selection of stock edges to choose from, with or without bolt holes, YMMV.
Any decent steel distributor can cut and bevel some Hardox or equivalent to suit, and should be able to pierce and cut the square holes you need. Might need that milling machine to properly cut the counterbores. The other option on the square holes would be to do a round hole with a carbide rotobroach then broach the square out. Don't need much, don't need anything really it's just to keep the head from spinning yeah? Five minute with a grinder make the square part of the bolt round. Sorry, my brain runs on auto a lot.
 

alaskaforby4

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
536
Location
Alaska
Occupation
Owner Operator
What about trying to drill/tap the edge for regular bolts. Have drilled/tapped old cutting edges before to make misc tools around the shop. Have always used a mag drill and these taps
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/64048028

IPD? Deere? Deere used to have a nice selection of stock edges to choose from, with or without bolt holes, YMMV.
Any decent steel distributor can cut and bevel some Hardox or equivalent to suit, and should be able to pierce and cut the square holes you need. Might need that milling machine to properly cut the counterbores. The other option on the square holes would be to do a round hole with a carbide rotobroach then broach the square out. Don't need much, don't need anything really it's just to keep the head from spinning yeah? Five minute with a grinder make the square part of the bolt round. Sorry, my brain runs on auto a lot.

I like both these ideas! I talked to our local steel distributor and they quoted me for hardox AR 500, for a 64x96x1” sheet was $3600. Everything was sold by the lb. or they could cut out what ever I wanted for $100/hr and they would keep the expensive left over. So, my dreams of plasma cutting the sheet ended, as that is too hard to beat. Additionally I’d have scrap I couldn’t use. They said they could cut the holes in as well if I had a template. I didn’t inqure further as I don’t want to have it all completed for me! Even if it is cost effective, haha, got to learn somehow.

I was thinking today about what 1466 said, if I milled a round hole down enough to protect most of the bolt head from being sheared I could just use a hex bolt and nut. Then drill the appropriote diameter shank size through the hardox. I will look into this “rotobroach” and through that MSC website, I will need to buy my own tooling to use for this project. Thanks for insight so far! How is drilling AR500? Sounds terrible
 

Tugger2

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
1,366
Location
British Columbia
I have done a few cutting edges from QT400. Just did one last year for my 910 loader . We drilled it for 3/4 plow bolts then counterbored for the heads with another drill ground to suit. the square holes were done by torch using a little jig lined up over the hole to run square. It looked like the real thing and stays tight. It was a 3piece edge long center section and 2 side edges ,i beveled both sides so it can be flipped around for wear, beveled the long section with my track cutter and torch then the 2 side edges on the milling machine as an effort to keep the heat out of the bevels.
I have done them for 1" bolts by drilling then counterboring the for the heads with a fly cutter that was piloted in the bolt hole. At that time we had a square broach made up which could be pressed thru ,making the square. I still have the broach stashed away ,ill try and post pics on the weekend when i get back to the shop.
All this said if you have a decent drill press ,experiment with grinding a drill bit ,run it nice n slow with cutting oil .I dont think a roto broach has the cutting surface area to stand the pressures of drilling that stuff. Im sure theres better advice on here as to actually grinding a drill bit for this material,for me i can get it done but grinding each drill bit is a science project some work well some dont.
 

56wrench

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
2,074
Location
alberta
the best replaceable cutting edges are through- hardened and they are harder to drill compared to others that aren't. if you are accurate with oxy-acetylene, holes and bevelling can be done but under high-impact use the edge may crack and break through a hole because of the disruption in the HAZ( heat affected zone) around the holes. as far as i know, the better edges are hardened after the holes are made
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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28,977
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
In the vernacular - "anything's possible, but is it practical?."
Try costing out all the materials and tools you would need to buy (especially for making the holes if you don't have them already). Add to that the purchase of the required steel, then add all the manhours of labour to manufacture a cutting edge at whatever is your internal labour cost.
On the basis of crunching the number does it make sense to try to make your own edges or is it better to have your employees doing what are possibly more productive maintenance tasks and simply buy in your GET..? That does not imply you should buy from where you've always bought, there may be deals from other suppliers, and shopping around is part of the game.

MHO - YMMV.
 

56wrench

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Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
2,074
Location
alberta
at one place i worked at, the practice was to weld half-arrow edges on clean-out buckets. i decided that was a waste of my time when i could be doing more important things so i converted any of those buckets to bolt-on reversible edges and then the operators could do it themselves
 

alaskaforby4

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
536
Location
Alaska
Occupation
Owner Operator
In the vernacular - "anything's possible, but is it practical?."
Try costing out all the materials and tools you would need to buy (especially for making the holes if you don't have them already). Add to that the purchase of the required steel, then add all the manhours of labour to manufacture a cutting edge at whatever is your internal labour cost.
On the basis of crunching the number does it make sense to try to make your own edges or is it better to have your employees doing what are possibly more productive maintenance tasks and simply buy in your GET..? That does not imply you should buy from where you've always bought, there may be deals from other suppliers, and shopping around is part of the game.

MHO - YMMV.

I agree Nige, I'm a firm believer in letting professionals do their trade. A lot less headache for sure. I would like to learn this stuff is the only thing. Even if its a "what not to do" for future use. I may just try one smaller one to get the feel. If its not enjoyable whatsoever, I'll stick to buying them complete. At any rate, going through a steel manufacture is going to be cheaper than buying from the bucket manufacture, so that is good news already!
 
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