Lull solenoid

[barklee]

I have a problem that has been nagging at me with three different machines now. I have a Lull 1044c with the deere engine, a sullair compressor with the deere engine, and a Ingersol rand compressor with the duetz engine........ all the same problem!!!:Banghead

When the machines are warmed up and you shut them down and try to restart the solenoid that kills the fuel to the injection pump either sticks or doesnt activate. On all three machines if you run a jumper wire from the battery your problem is solved. All you have to do is hold it there for about a minute or two and it will stay locked on its own.

Any ideas?? Do they need replaced?? Thanks:drinkup

 

[willie59]

Are you describing an external solenoid like a round Syncro Start solenoid with pull linkage? If so, do they have two terminals or three.

 

[barklee]

If i remember correct they have one or two wires and they screw into the injection pump. I never took one out so i dont really know how to describe it. I would say that they are about 1 inch in diameter and i know the Lull has a terminal on the top with a nut that holds on the wire

 

[willie59]

So, you're describing shut down solenoid cartridges that are screwed into the injection pump, no?

 

[barklee]

yep, that is correct

 

[willie59]

barklee, you have a very unusual problem. Not the fuel solenoid thingys acting up, I've seen that before on engines, typically wiring problems causing low voltage to the shut down solenoid. The unusual part is that it's happening on three different units of your fleet, very weird indeed.

It seems obvious that you have wiring problems, well, maybe no problems per se, but issues in the wiring that is causing low voltage to shut down solenoids when the machines are warmed up. Dang this seems weird talking same problem on multiple machines, talking in plural! My point is, you could spend a ton of time going through the wiring trying to determine what is causing low voltage to solenoids, or you could say "to heck with it" and quickly remedy your problem.

The reason I'm saying this is because you stated you can connect a jumper wire from good positive battery source to the solenoid/solenoids and the engine would fire off, that's what indicates you have low voltage at the solenoids from "run" wiring.

The most reliable way of fixing this without extensive wiring troubleshooting is by using a typical cube relay located near the solenoid. Run a 12 gauge wire from positive battery terminal of starter to terminal 30 of relay. Run a 14 gauge wire from terminal 87 of cube relay to shut down solenoid positive terminal. Connect positive wire that is presently going to solenoid to terminal 85 of relay. Connect terminal 86 of relay to ground/earth. Your engine should now fire up. Just baffles me that you have this same problem on multiple machines. :beatsme

 

[barklee]

Yep, i might have to install the relay.... that doesnt sound too difficult to install. Thanks for the info!!

 

[barklee]

Still been using the Lull as is, been using the jumper wire to fill in untill i have time to install the solenoid. The guys called me today and said that they had the same trouble with the stop on the pump. They now say that when you turn the key over the machine is completely dead, after it sat for a while it worked again.
I think there is a poltergiest in the wiring. But it really has to be something in the harness from the ignition to the board mounted under the controls. Right??

 

[willie59]

If you're talking about one of those circuit boards that has small relays and such, those things can be problematic. You for sure have a wiring/circuit problem, a resistive circuit that gets worse as the machine is in use, causing the circuit to heat up and become more resistive, which likely equals voltage drop to fuel solenoid when machine is warm. You could chase down that gremlin, which would be the proper thing to do, but may take you hours to find it. A relay at the fuel solenoid may just save you a ton of time a keep the machine operating. It's worth a shot, no real loss trying.

 

[Haddy]

Three machines with this reasonably rare problem . Has something got in your fuel to make them stick ? Just a thought

 

[barklee]

Who knows!!! I think it is the gremlin Wille speaks of. I was really hoping to wait and get the Lull back to the shop before tearing into the problems, but looks like that cant wait.
The compressor isnt that big of a deal. We just hook the jumper to it for a minute or two and its fine for the rest of the day. That is a winter problem! I only use it about once a week, but the Lull runs every day all day.
Man I'll tell you, that thing hit 6000hrs and its falling apart! All the steer cylinders started leaking, the tele in out cylinder is leaking, there is an injector leaking, leaking from something in the back of the boom. The plate that connects the lift cylinder in the back cracked the other day. Wow :Banghead:Banghead

 

[barklee]

Thanks for the help Wille, got that relay put in last week. Seems to be working pretty well. I havent had any problems yet. I cant wait to get her back to the shop and fix all the issues though. Definitley something goin on with the key not working once in a while.

:notworthy:notworthy

 

[willie59]

Aye, sounds like a plan barklee, I hope you can find and fix that electrical gremlin. I've had those relays fitted on the starter circuit get me out of a bind more than once. Keep us updated with progress.

 

[dnanton]

Lull Solenoid damage within a year

I have 3 Lull 1044C, which are for some reason giving me problems by damaging the solenoid that controls the boom movements. Any idea on what can I do to understand where the problem is.

Any ideas where to buy on internet Solenoids, at a decent price?

barklee, you have a very unusual problem. Not the fuel solenoid thingys acting up, I've seen that before on engines, typically wiring problems causing low voltage to the shut down solenoid. The unusual part is that it's happening on three different units of your fleet, very weird indeed.

It seems obvious that you have wiring problems, well, maybe no problems per se, but issues in the wiring that is causing low voltage to shut down solenoids when the machines are warmed up. Dang this seems weird talking same problem on multiple machines, talking in plural! My point is, you could spend a ton of time going through the wiring trying to determine what is causing low voltage to solenoids, or you could say "to heck with it" and quickly remedy your problem.

The reason I'm saying this is because you stated you can connect a jumper wire from good positive battery source to the solenoid/solenoids and the engine would fire off, that's what indicates you have low voltage at the solenoids from "run" wiring.

The most reliable way of fixing this without extensive wiring troubleshooting is by using a typical cube relay located near the solenoid. Run a 12 gauge wire from positive battery terminal of starter to terminal 30 of relay. Run a 14 gauge wire from terminal 87 of cube relay to shut down solenoid positive terminal. Connect positive wire that is presently going to solenoid to terminal 85 of relay. Connect terminal 86 of relay to ground/earth. Your engine should now fire up. Just baffles me that you have this same problem on multiple machines. :beatsme