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Looking to haul more gravel materials

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by EvanM, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. EvanM

    EvanM Active Member

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    Saw a grain of what looked like a grain end dump hauling rd mix. I've been stricken by the bug.

    Anyone here doing? Are they running at 105? How many tons are they moving.
    I'd like to move 26tons if possible .

    A full frame would be nice.

    I see some going from 18-30k.

    What about axles. 3 or 4,

    I am dreaming. 20190613_133413.jpg

    Dirt is the enemy. The more moved on one shot the better.

    Onlything fighting it is this little truck.
    Looking to do more but not invest 100k.
    This truck stays with a machine so a pumps nit the best thing

    Sorry no time to edit
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  2. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    OK to start, I am still trying to figure out what language is spoken here!!

    Going end dump trailer full frame should get you to 80K gross weight or around 45 t load(If stay legal), what our local rock supplier runs is a tandem axle 20 yard bed dump truck with two pusher steerables on air lift ahead of the drives and a 18k front axle with duplex rubber, he routinely carries 24 t on the truck(no scales close by and less DOT). Same set up running close by city LOADS of DOT and portable scales maxes the truck at 19t load.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. EvanM

    EvanM Active Member

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    Lots of dot here.

    Sorry my phone does some funky stuff.
    Full frame dirt end dumps are getting rare here. Though they are getting longer 3axles with a drop some lots of belly and side dumps..

    The super dump and big dump trucks I'm not to interested in. They cost alot.
    I'm currently watching for a tractor and trailer. Doesnt matter what comes first. I do some bucket repair and rebuilds and tend to run into trade deals. I'd like to get over 20tons legal.

    I'll have to look into length and spread might be able to make a full frame do it if I can find one. But I might increase weight to much to make it worth while.
     
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  4. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    I think you need to spend some time on your state DOT web site to see what is legal and not. Each state runs their own set of regulations so what works in Idaho may not work in Washington, Oregon, Montana or Utah.
    Good Luck!
     
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  5. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Tractor trailer will set you into quite a different world of DOT headaches and maintenance requirements as you likely already have a Class A.
     
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  6. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    A heads up on dump trailer use, if DO buy a tractor trailer stay AWAY from typical On Highway style road tractors, they generally sit TOO low, fuel tanks are low, air ride is not all that great without a dump valve to drop suspension when dumping the trailer. Will hate the trucks designed for off road, heavy suspensions, rubber block or even spring Hendrickson, walking beam style. Steer axle and suspension needs to be at LEAST 12K if not 16 or 18K as the fifth wheel will be well forward typically, if go frameless trailer have to pin fifth wheel in flat position and they develop Slop FAST. Do NOT ever try to dump off angle or already leaning, truck Needs to be square to trailer and as flat as possible as a general rule, can be a slight offline but do not give the trailer a chance to roll over sideways as it will. Pay close attention to load drop, if it stops too soon stop raising the bed and go look, do not try to shake a bridged load loose from the nose.
     
  7. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    I have seen a dump trailer fall over on perfectly level solid stone bed rock while dumping a load with a driver that was experienced hauling dumps. Decided the problem was the steel trailer had not been used for a while and was rusty inside and the material was wet crushed stone that had a bit of clay in it. Just a bit stuck to one side and threw off the balance and over it went!

    Guess my point would be make sure you really know what you are doing before even trying to haul with a dump trailer. Once things start wrong there is not much that can be done to save the day!
     
  8. EvanM

    EvanM Active Member

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    I have alittle experience running end dumps and truck and pups.
    I hear you on air suspension. Its definitely a no go. A company I worked for bought a truck with air bags. Even with bags dumped you had to be level. Its frame was tweaked bef would always go right. You wanted to start with a left lean to counter the built in right lean when dumping. This was just a dump truck with 15ft bed. Scariest thing I've ever ran.
    Our truck pictured above is leaf suspension and can dump from most any crazy angle.
    I haven't had time to look into our dot here but will.
    Our truck is legal hauling 13 tons.
    Registered over 54k does bring lots of headache logging miles plus added fees I think theres another bracket over 80k to.

    Thanks for the replies.
    Around here the big grain type trailers seem rare hauling dirt products. Maybe theres goid reason for that.
     
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  9. Crummy

    Crummy Senior Member

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    I've known a couple of times guys here trying aggregates with their end dumps and they always ended up on their sides taking a nap fairly soon. To get 105,500 I think you may need a pretty long wagon (inner bridge) and "Idaho Spread" quad and would be dumping on the rear axle, which wouldn't work, AND may be too be long and dealing with restricted routes. It's been awhile since I looked at the bridge & off-track formulas in Idaho so I could be wrong there.

    @DMiller brought up a good point- there are suspensions & 5th wheel plates, if you look at the specs, that are NOT rated for use with end dumps.

    Maybe a tri or quad wagon behind the existing truck? Get some more capacity without breaking the bank, plus leave it in the yard when not needed.
     
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  10. EvanM

    EvanM Active Member

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    Are end dumps nit common where you guys are?) Here in idaho they are.
     
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  11. Crummy

    Crummy Senior Member

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    Asking me? Yeah, lots here. No burning for land clearing so haul it all out. One outfit up the road that's all they do, really nice rigs with high side trailers hauls slash stumps + scrap steel from the shipyard. Good $.
     
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  12. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Drove one awhile hauling grain, aggregate, clay, and crushed lime(farm amendment). Lime was scary as bridged relatively easy, clay was dry, grey and blocky but would adhere to anything except the trailer liner. Some use square side, my ex-boss used round bottomed. MAC makes both.
    IMG_3939.JPG

    Truck was spec'd wrong for what was being used for, did have air suspension dumps for truck and trailer just drove like crap with Pete Air Leaf. Pretty and pretty dysfunctional.
     
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  13. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Still the most typical here, some will drag a pup.

    [​IMG]
    This a typical pup for Eastern MO
    [​IMG]

    Get around 19-20T on truck and additional 10-12T on pup. Use them together in 'Commercial Zone' here where so long as stay off interstate get away with axle weights only and not gross load total.

    Most I ever got on the Pete was 63,000 lbs of Ultra Fine lime Dust for a overall of 87+k truck and load. Managed to get close to that with Corn coming off the fields was actually dribbling off the edges.
     
  14. Tones

    Tones Senior Member

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  15. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Only in the Commercial Centers as St. Louis, KC MO near here. They have popularity in MI and CA but not all that accepted and NONE on Interstate system as Bridge Laws shut that off.
     
  16. colson04

    colson04 Senior Member

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    We pull pups like this in Michigan behind tri axle or quad dumps to make a "Short Double" I've seen them pulled behind a tandem dump once in awhile, but not often. These pups are commonly found in 4, 5 or 6 axle configurations. 00K0K_Kw6YTCCf7I_1200x900.jpg


    That said, you see a lot more gravel trains than anything, especially by the bigger operators.
    00O0O_eELPAC0yVru_1200x900.jpg
     
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  17. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Michigan Train
     
  18. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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  19. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    We've got it easy here as the average 18-20 CY tri-axle can legally carry a 25 ton payload on state and local roads.

    Typical tri-axle that can legally carry 25 tons like this one. If I ever win the lottery...:D

    KW triaxle.jpg
     
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  20. Mother Deuce

    Mother Deuce Senior Member

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    In Washington if the inner bridge and overall between 1 and 4 is good you might get 14 ton maybe 15 ton. On paper just guessing at lengths it looks like 19 ton and some change. However you will typically bury the back group before you ever load 20,000 on the nose. I have had this argument in person in the North Bend scales with a female officer who was in the process off writing me a ticket for 3000 over on the drivers. I inquired whether I should open the hood and throw rocks all over the engine to try to get better weight transfer...
     
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