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Looking for input on a small portable crusher plant

funwithfuel

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Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
5,456
Location
Will county Illinois
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Mechanic
The cone crusher is gonna probably be the best fit for you, however it's not gonna produce the tonnage. A Kodiak will take whatever you can fit in the feeder, and produce 2" all day long. Over feed it and you'll be lookin at down time, disassembly, clean out blah blah blah. The jaw is an excellent primary as stated earlier, I still feel a track mounted HSI is the best fit for the tonnage you're trying to produce. The down side is, you try to knock 18" down to 2 it'll flood over the transverse recirc belt, over load the recirc conveyor back to the feeder. And on top of all that you'll be consuming the machine from the inside out.
By mobile application, are you meaning that you want a plant you can move from pit to pit, along a highway project or just not A/C powered stationary plant.
You stated that your source was gonna be virgin which minimizes the possibility of foreign object damage. Now, being in the Midwest and not familiar with Basalt , I googled it. Wow, you're gonna consume parts. It's high silicone, aluminum oxide, and fine grain structure. We can crush limestone out here for 1000's of hours before flipping the bars or changing wear plates. (with a good feeder operator and 6-8" feed size. You try to break this stuff, you're gonna need a jaw. Let the rock crush the rock. You're also gonna have to educate the loader operator to choke the jaws. give it some room to let the rock squash the rock. I don't see a single product that will fit your need. Ideally , you want a jaw to reduce your 18-24 primary to a 6-8 then feed that product directly to a cone with this combination , I'm confident you can hit your target and then some. Down side to this is you'd have 2 plants consuming between 8-12 gallons/hour one operator observing and maintaining the jaw (jaw needs greasing every 2 hours with synthetic) one operator for the cone, less maintenance but still needs observation, he can also observe the belts and screens . Like Grandpa stated, you're gonna have all the peripheral costs. I can refer you to a guy who knows sooooo much more than I . He's a company head , but more than that he gets off on breakin rock. He's closer to you than I (ND) . All in you're looking at a huge up front investment, plus supporting equipment and personnel and training but once yer set up, you should be making back your investment. Please , for your sake and those who work under you, Don't ever compromise on parts , regardless of brand you choose. Wear parts are designed to be sacrificial , There's a reason they use grade 5 hardware to assemble. Don't be tempted to use grade8 . Open and insect your machine daily. There's no excuse for consuming the machine. It will tell you what it needs. When it needs parts and maintenance, get after it. If not , you'll pay dearly with extended downtime and rebuilding/replacing parts you shouldn't have to. Make sure you have a trained loader operator, or excavator, whatever your gonna feed with. PM me if you want to have this other fellas info.
 

ol'stonebreaker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
333
Location
Idaho
Occupation
retired
Granpa is sooo right!! When you fire up a gravel refinery and MSHA shows up, welcome to a whole new world!! We had a local guy with a gravel pit, trackhoes, trucks etc. He bought a little all in one unit with jaw, rolls and screen. MSHA showed up and the unit was shortly sold.
IMO MSHA is a good thing for the working man, but is a shining example of a typical federal bureaucracy out of control. They are of the mindset that there are a few idiots among us, therefore that makes all us of idiots.
Fun is right about the need for a jaw and cone for basalt. However this probably gets back to a multi unit plant which will make several truckloads to move. You could opt for a 24"x36" jaw with feeder and an all in one unit less the feeder with impactor and screen. The jaw should be diesel powered with a hydraulic pump added to power the feeder, under jaw conveyor and, if needed, a conveyor from the under jaw conv to the screen. A control shack could be mounted on the jaw with controls for the jaw components and an emergency shut down for the all in one engine, or if possible shut down everything but the impactor but still be able to stop it also. By doing this a generator is eliminated from the loads to be moved. Dust control is best accomplished with a high pressure water pump and misters placed where dust is prevalent such as over the jaw, the intake and exhaust ends of the impactor and the feed end of the screen on both decks. This pump could be powered by a small diesel gennie because it will be handy for repairs if the welder isn't available at the moment.
I have to respectfully disagree with fun about about the wear factor of basalt. I've crushed hundreds of thousands of tons of shot basalt in eastern Washington and an equal amount of glacial moraine gravel and a lot of the gravel wears more. EK, if you get into this business, run, don't walk away from silica rock!! Besides being an extreme health hazard it will wear beyond your wildest nightmares!! All the way from the loader bucket to belting.
JMHO,
Mike
 
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ol'stonebreaker

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Messages
333
Location
Idaho
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retired
Sounds like MSHA logic or should I say lack thereof!! Brings old memories of dealing with mindless assholes. Years ago we had a MSHA inspector touring the plant, he pulled his amprobe out his pocket and hooked it over a cord hanging down from a conveyor motor. I badly wanted to ask him how many amps it was pulling, but I thought, nah, just leave it alone. For those that don't know an amprobe will only read amps off of one conductor of said cord. In other words in motor junction box or back at the mag starter.
Mike
 

cuttin edge

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Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,665
Location
NB Canada
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Finish grader operator
Sounds like MSHA logic or should I say lack thereof!! Brings old memories of dealing with mindless assholes. Years ago we had a MSHA inspector touring the plant, he pulled his amprobe out his pocket and hooked it over a cord hanging down from a conveyor motor. I badly wanted to ask him how many amps it was pulling, but I thought, nah, just leave it alone. For those that don't know an amprobe will only read amps off of one conductor of said cord. In other words in motor junction box or back at the mag starter.
Mike
I don't know how to do your job, but my book says you're doing it wrong
 

ol'stonebreaker

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Apr 26, 2015
Messages
333
Location
Idaho
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retired
Being retired from crushers/IUOE for 15 years I no longer do my job. What does your book say is wrong?
Mike
 

cuttin edge

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NB Canada
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Finish grader operator
Being retired from crushers/IUOE for 15 years I no longer do my job. What does your book say is wrong?
Mike
That's the premise that most of these inspectors work on. They know nothing about the job you are doing, but according to their book, it is wrong
 

EK701

Active Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
28
Location
Central Oregon
Thanks again for all the input! The intent is to be able to move from site to site easily and quickly and to address smaller excavation projects that aren't being addressed now. If I could do 50 tons/hour, that would be great. I might be able to knock down the input size some to maybe 12" square maximum. The most in demand product is 3/4"- and 1-1/2"- for use in road and foundation base and sub-base.

In my area, there are a lot of smaller excavation jobs (500-10000 yards) that are having to pay to haul off rock, then pay to buy crushed rock for use on site. They could save money, and I could possibly make money, if the excavated rock could be crushed on site. According to local contractors, there is demand for this service if it saves them money.

Ideally, I would like to be able to transport the plant in one truck load, with support equipment on a second load. The excavation contractor would be responsible for feeding the plant under the crusher operators direction and would be responsible for moving the produced product.
 

ol'stonebreaker

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EK, IMO the less the output of the plant you get then more than likely the smaller the rock it will take. Between trying to snag a niche market and keeping portability to a minimum # of loads, it's going to be difficult to satisfy both. As to the contractor feeding the plant, that can get sticky if you have a loader operator that thinks he's smarter than the plant man. You have to have an understanding out the gate that your plant man will take suggestions but his decision is final. Been there, done that too!!
Understand I'm not touting my idea as best. With shot rock(it's what I call basalt) the size you'll get I think a small jaw, say 20"x30", with no attached feeder and a Texas feeder(google it) would break it down enough for the small all in one unit less a feeder. The Texas feeder could be hyd powered off the jaw hydraulics. The Texas feeder could be set up with a removable dual wheel axle and removable hitch so it can be towed behind your service truck if it's big enough or it could be fitted with a fifth wheel pin. The fifth wheel pin would work best as you can load the hoe, take it to the next job, unload it, drop the lowbed and go back for the feeder. With the Texas feeder it eliminates hinged wing walls on the jaw unit and a ramp isn't needed so the loader can dump in the jaw mounted feeder. If the under jaw conveyor isn't high enough to feed the all in one it can be hinged and extended to reach and the hoe can fold it in and out for moves.
By my count: 1st load--- Texas feeder if you choose to load it, 2 product conveyors for the all in one unless it comes with it's own stacking conveyors and what ever support eqpt will fit.
2nd load--- Jaw
3rd load--- all in one
4th load--- whatever is left
5th load--- and, of course, the hoe
Don't know the size of your track hoe but it will be needed to erect and take down the Texas feeder.
This what I visualize as the best fit for what you want to do. Hopefully others will have better ideas.
Another problem that will crop up with the contractor loader hand is getting him educated as to how big a rock the jaw will break without the plant man having to crawl in and break it enough with a double jack. Been there, done that also!!
HTH,
Mike
 

cuttin edge

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Finish grader operator
Not sure what it's like there, but if you are crushing for anything but private sale here, the finish product has to pass government spec. Provincial and federal have different specs.
 

EK701

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Feb 8, 2017
Messages
28
Location
Central Oregon
EK, IMO the less the output of the plant you get then more than likely the smaller the rock it will take. Between trying to snag a niche market and keeping portability to a minimum # of loads, it's going to be difficult to satisfy both. As to the contractor feeding the plant, that can get sticky if you have a loader operator that thinks he's smarter than the plant man. You have to have an understanding out the gate that your plant man will take suggestions but his decision is final. Been there, done that too!!
Understand I'm not touting my idea as best. With shot rock(it's what I call basalt) the size you'll get I think a small jaw, say 20"x30", with no attached feeder and a Texas feeder(google it) would break it down enough for the small all in one unit less a feeder. The Texas feeder could be hyd powered off the jaw hydraulics. The Texas feeder could be set up with a removable dual wheel axle and removable hitch so it can be towed behind your service truck if it's big enough or it could be fitted with a fifth wheel pin. The fifth wheel pin would work best as you can load the hoe, take it to the next job, unload it, drop the lowbed and go back for the feeder. With the Texas feeder it eliminates hinged wing walls on the jaw unit and a ramp isn't needed so the loader can dump in the jaw mounted feeder. If the under jaw conveyor isn't high enough to feed the all in one it can be hinged and extended to reach and the hoe can fold it in and out for moves.
By my count: 1st load--- Texas feeder if you choose to load it, 2 product conveyors for the all in one unless it comes with it's own stacking conveyors and what ever support eqpt will fit.
2nd load--- Jaw
3rd load--- all in one
4th load--- whatever is left
5th load--- and, of course, the hoe
Don't know the size of your track hoe but it will be needed to erect and take down the Texas feeder.
This what I visualize as the best fit for what you want to do. Hopefully others will have better ideas.
Another problem that will crop up with the contractor loader hand is getting him educated as to how big a rock the jaw will break without the plant man having to crawl in and break it enough with a double jack. Been there, done that also!!
HTH,
Mike
Great info! Thanks!
 

grandpa

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Oct 15, 2009
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1,977
Location
northern minnesota
Keep in mind EVERY time you move you have to re notify Msha. If your equipment has electrical on it, reestablish and re document all grounds. Oh, and if you use the other fellows loader and operator to feed and remove product, they will have to have the standard Msha training also.
 

cuttin edge

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,665
Location
NB Canada
Occupation
Finish grader operator
EK, IMO the less the output of the plant you get then more than likely the smaller the rock it will take. Between trying to snag a niche market and keeping portability to a minimum # of loads, it's going to be difficult to satisfy both. As to the contractor feeding the plant, that can get sticky if you have a loader operator that thinks he's smarter than the plant man. You have to have an understanding out the gate that your plant man will take suggestions but his decision is final. Been there, done that too!!
Understand I'm not touting my idea as best. With shot rock(it's what I call basalt) the size you'll get I think a small jaw, say 20"x30", with no attached feeder and a Texas feeder(google it) would break it down enough for the small all in one unit less a feeder. The Texas feeder could be hyd powered off the jaw hydraulics. The Texas feeder could be set up with a removable dual wheel axle and removable hitch so it can be towed behind your service truck if it's big enough or it could be fitted with a fifth wheel pin. The fifth wheel pin would work best as you can load the hoe, take it to the next job, unload it, drop the lowbed and go back for the feeder. With the Texas feeder it eliminates hinged wing walls on the jaw unit and a ramp isn't needed so the loader can dump in the jaw mounted feeder. If the under jaw conveyor isn't high enough to feed the all in one it can be hinged and extended to reach and the hoe can fold it in and out for moves.
By my count: 1st load--- Texas feeder if you choose to load it, 2 product conveyors for the all in one unless it comes with it's own stacking conveyors and what ever support eqpt will fit.
2nd load--- Jaw
3rd load--- all in one
4th load--- whatever is left
5th load--- and, of course, the hoe
Don't know the size of your track hoe but it will be needed to erect and take down the Texas feeder.
This what I visualize as the best fit for what you want to do. Hopefully others will have better ideas.
Another problem that will crop up with the contractor loader hand is getting him educated as to how big a rock the jaw will break without the plant man having to crawl in and break it enough with a double jack. Been there, done that also!!
HTH,
Mike
I can remember 2 guys with ropes tied around their waist crawling down into the area above the jaw. Now the jaw is still running as they rest their feet on a 2 inch perch as they wrap a cable around a rock jammed in the feed. The excavator would pull up on the rock to make it flip down into the jaw. I asked why they didn't stop the jaw, and got takes too long! By the time it stops, and starts up again gotta keep the screens full young fella. Plus if it falls while you are shutting down it will jam. I was so glad when they put a hammer for breaking rocks like that on the feeder. I couldn't tell who was worse him for sending them in, or them for doing it. He lost a man in the 60s when he went through the rolls. By the time they got her stopped, he was in it up to his rib cage. It was before my time, but I thought they said they were getting ready to build the rolls on an old 544.they were bumping her ahead or something and buddy fell in.
 

ol'stonebreaker

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Apr 26, 2015
Messages
333
Location
Idaho
Occupation
retired
Granpa is right about MSHA. They can be a real pain in the a$$ and your wallet!!
For every moving part on a crushing plant there's a way it can maim or kill you. It's not a place for stupid!! We always stopped the jaw for rock removal and afterward the catskinner/loaderhand got a talking to about why it was in there. The really stupid thing I've seen done many times is fashioning a cable on a loader tooth to break rocks in the jaw it can't quite get a bite on or it's wedged between the cheek plates. That tooth can come out like a rocket!! We always used a piece of shafting about a foot long and torch cut so a 1/2" cable could be "molly hoganed" to it and a wedge cut on the other end.
I guess I can brag a little and say after 32 years on the gravel refineries I still have all my fingers and toes, and none of my crew ever had any major injuries.
Mike
 
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Jonas302

Senior Member
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Jan 4, 2015
Messages
1,194
Location
mn
You guys must have cursed me with the MSHA talk He came to the shop couldn't find anybody in the pit (we haven't crushed since freeze up in December) apparently when the boss let them know we were closed for the winter she must have hit he wrong button. He figured out that it was a mistake and just came up to let us know he was there not unreasonable to deal with but you must play the games there way he will be back wearing out the ticket book this summer :)
 
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