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Looking at old backhoes

Jshopes81

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
36
Location
15020
Ya, i cant believe the amount of input ive gotten as a newbie to this forum. You guys are unbelieveably awesome.
I just had a guy email me with a 580e extendahoe in ohio for 6500. Says it needs a brake line and a bushing in the front end. If the front end isnt needing replaced and its not too ragged out this could be a killer deal, but we'll see.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,259
Location
Canada
May or may not be a decent machine. I'm always curious when a machine appears to need minor repairs but they aren't performed. Seems like fixing a brake line and a bushing could bring the price up a few thousand bucks.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,040
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Very. On Dave's point about closed center being expensive and the idea of avoiding that in older machines. I totally agree with that.
I've owned a couple Deere 410 series. They have been closed center. I had been led to believe ALL John Deere backhoes are closed center.

I've never owned a new Deere, but I far prefer to operate a closed center system. It's true they are very complex, few mechanics understand the older ones, & newer ones, only Deere trained mechanics can repair.
 

Birdseye

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
247
Location
Topeka Kansas
Here’s a Case 580e coming up for auction on Wednesday Jan 6 in mid Pennsylvania

83C8B82F-7AA3-4C5A-9FA3-EA5F670674E9.jpeg

consider to take out a $40 annual subscription to farming classified newspaper “Mailbox Marketplace “ lancasterfarming.com or similar paper
 

Birdseye

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Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
247
Location
Topeka Kansas
7D6D1396-73C0-4DAE-842A-613C9775D529.jpegI got the same situation on mine and I couldn’t tell by just looking at it. Also , if worn , is it just one spot near the top of the hole or the full length of where the roller bearing cage presses against. I couldn’t tell so because of this doubt, I ordered the after market kit and will try it. If it comes apart then my plan “B” will be a piece of pipe or similar around the kingpin.
 

Jshopes81

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
36
Location
15020
The seller sent a bunch of pictures and thats one of them. Im going to check it out tomorow before i start my hitch.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,342
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
View attachment 231309I got the same situation on mine and I couldn’t tell by just looking at it. Also , if worn , is it just one spot near the top of the hole or the full length of where the roller bearing cage presses against. I couldn’t tell so because of this doubt, I ordered the after market kit and will try it. If it comes apart then my plan “B” will be a piece of pipe or similar around the kingpin.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,040
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Wallowed out bushings are extreme! They prove serious neglect.

These pivots are fitted with bushings. Old bushings are easily removed by heat. Weld a few beads inside the bushing, or heat with oxy acetylene. They then beat out with the right punch.

New bushings are costly, I'll bet on this machine you will need a lot of them. Replacing bushings is tough! I have not found a good coolant to shrink them enough to press in.
Dry ice might work, liquid nitrogen is twice as cold, but not available everywhere.

Count the bushings worn on a machine. I'd give an average of 150 per joint for parts. I spend an average of 8 hours to freshen a joint.
 

JL Sargent

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
842
Location
Alabama
Are new bushing available? Why couldn't you center the pin, measure and machine a bushing to fit in the gap tight as possible and go back to work? Have not done that myself, but why not?
 

Birdseye

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
247
Location
Topeka Kansas
The parts diagram for steering axle/spindle on a CASE 580se shows only a needle bearing cage and no bushing. The kingpin needle bearings are about 1” high, if the casting that the bearing sits in is worn away too much and not providing enough support, that thin bearing is going to break apart. I’m going to give mine a try but I won’t be surprised if the bore is damaged and I can’t even tell. If it’s worn a few thousandth of an inch that would probably be enough for the bearing to fail. One alternative is to remove the axle beam and have a machinist align-bore it. Another alternative is to replace with a bushing and keep it greased.

Use of bushings on worn steering kingpin bore discussed on another HEF thread here
88E5FD14-4F7E-405C-A449-2CB83FDEF7C3.jpeg FA395A5A-1245-46E2-AAD8-6F09CF7E8B51.jpeg 3C4AF7AE-C382-4DBF-9717-C07CF37A5844.jpeg
 

Jshopes81

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
36
Location
15020
I priced parts for a rebuild of the kingpin at about 100$. I giess i can take a caliper and see if its egg shaped or ovaled out inside. I know some of the big trucks weve gotten from down south are worn flat out inside 100 thousand miles and their roads dont even turn much. Ill for sure be checking for other signs of neglect too. I get what your saying, if they skimped on grease there, did they skimp on engine oil too?
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,259
Location
Canada
Split tension bushings are another option and not overly expensive. They also don't need to be frozen to install and will work on a less than perfect bore. Still have to fix an oblong bore first though. They also don't normally require grease. I used some 2-1/2" ID by 3" OD to fix my backhoe swing post pivots. I installed them with Loctite 660 because the bores weren't perfectly round. Working great so far.

CONNEX - Spring Bushings & Pins (connexusa.com)

Split Tension Bushing - Hercules for o-rings, hydraulic seals, cylinders (herculesus.com)
 
Last edited:

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,040
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I will expect the bore is out of round. I can't see from the picture whether there is a bushing. If the parent bore is worn you'll have to have it line bored & a machinist make new bushings to accept the bearing & new kingpin.

They severely neglected this joint. It is a good bet they neglected others.
A backhoe includes hundreds of pivots, how many others will need repair?
 

Jshopes81

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
36
Location
15020
Well, i just got done with my hitch and im back at it. Ive got a few prospects.
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/...ut=false&refCode=MESSENGER_BANNER_SEE_DETAILS
And
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/...ut=false&refCode=MESSENGER_BANNER_SEE_DETAILS

We discussed the price on the case and its not going to be anywhere near 10k. I looked at it tonight, its got some play in the rear boom pivot, 5500hrs, and what seems to be a good bit of bloowby to me. Its not a fog machine, but its definately got a good stream coming out of the breather. The machine sat for 8 years after an ex husband bought it and the new husband inherited it and got it running pretty good. The ford seems to be a good runner and is in good pretty decent shape. Its got around 5000 hrs. The case is close to home, but the ford seems to be in a little better condition.

Any thoughts on these two? Thanks again!
 

TomD16

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
6
Location
Ashburnham, MA
The Ford looks like it is in much better shape, at least in the pictures. It is less money, and comes with a 12 inch trenching bucket as well. I would buy the Ford. Just my 2 cents. If you do buy it and don't need the trenching bucket, I would be interested in purchasing it from you.

Good luck!
 
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