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Looking at old backhoes

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Jshopes81, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2020
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    15020
    Make a suggestion please. I was under the impression ford stuff was still available through new holland. I skipped on an mf50 due to parts availability, or lack of.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  2. outlawspeeder

    outlawspeeder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    USA
    My 2 cents:
    Wait till you find a good deal. 580Cs are all over the place in the mid west. It doesn't take much to make them work for you. I looked for 5 months. My top end was 10k. I looked a some that had been worked on my someone that only had a hammer and vise grip for tools. One had a been driven in to a creek and the owner thought it was ok to have water over the cab floor. (Under floor is two breathers.) I even looked at one that looked great, everything worked. The problem was the frame broken on one side and welded on the other.

    What I bought was a 580C that someone bought, put tires on it and then let it sit, health issues. He was very up front and told me that letting it sit with bio diesel in it is really bad. The tank was full of it and when he tried to start it, the goo was in the pump... He slaved in a boat fuel tank with a filter and the return to the tank. It did start right up.
    I paid $6500. Bills so far:
    $450 To get it hauled home
    $100 to clean the fuel tank
    $200 in oil and hyd (so far)
    $150 in seals (I have some extras)
    $30 for brake linings
    $150 in wire, lights, fuses...
    $35 for a new steering hose that blew.
    About 20 hours working on it.
    Still things I want to fix:
    Seat high adjust
    Paint a couple things
    What I know I have to fix soon:
    hoses
    hoses
    hoses

    What I have is a 580C that spent 20hours digging garbage out of a ditch 10 feet below grade. Another 15 hours digging out a bamboo plant (what a pain in the ass, don't believe me, google it). It has new tires that are 8 years old but are unused, they still had the year tag on the tread. It starts right up, previous owner rebuilt the head and injector pump due to the goo. On cold days, <30 deg a shot of ether and it kicks over.

    The bottom line, go look at a lot of them. DON"T BE AFRAID TO WALK AWAY! Things to look at:
    Cylinders that have deep scratches or bent
    Cracked frames
    Blue smoke
    If it is a shuttle that it moves (dam things are heave to remove, rebuild, and install)
    Check the rear for water. Drive it and look for light brown oil.
    Cutting edges that are worn out.

    Understand your buying someone project (they always need work). You need to know what the parts are going to cost and if you can do the job yourself. This includes the tools too. Keep an eye on the auctions, Craig's list, Market place... From post to sold is less then a day for what you are looking for.

    Good Luck
     
  3. Gasnoil

    Gasnoil Member

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    Location:
    canada
     
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  4. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

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    Dec 27, 2020
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    Location:
    15020
    I just found one on craigslist, a 580b thats not too far. The guy says he inherited it with property, no idea what the deal is, wants it gone. I figure if anything i could make money on scrapping it if its more than something minor. Pictures dont mean much, but it doesnt look terrible.
     
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  5. Gasnoil

    Gasnoil Member

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    Dec 8, 2020
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    Location:
    canada
    Hey Jshopes81, I am in similar situation as you, renting not really and option depending on work that needs to be done, your day job, and everything else. For me as well, cheaper to buy and old machine that to rent a new one at $1500+ per week.
    Bottom line, you can pay 5K,10K OR 30K they will all leak and will eventually cost you repairs at some point.Try and get a read on the owner for BS, ask as many questions as you can, test it as much as possible before you buy.
    Rule of thumb that I always go by for and old tractor, if the engine doesn't knock and the hydraulics work, and last but not least, if the wheels spin when you push dirt, then you should be ok.
    Its kind of a leap of faith anyways, so just make the best of it.

    I am a hardcore John Deere guy, but if you want to get a 5K machine, in my opinion JI Case had the edge on Backhoes over any manufacturer from the 60's to the early 80's. Then CAT and John Deere caught up and the rest is history.
    (Old MF's not bad either in those days with the Perkins.)

    i just purchased a 1968 Case 580ck and as Tinkerer said, you will find a wealth of info on this site. Only a few weeks as a member and already had a bunch of questions answered. Good luck man.
     
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  6. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2020
    Messages:
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    Location:
    15020
    I appreciate all the comments. Im going to check out this old case in the morning. We'll see if anything comes of it. I figure even if i spend a few hours drive time and mess with it for the day i can still scrap it at probably at least 10,000 lbs. That should work out to a good chunk of change worst case scenario.
     
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  7. edgephoto

    edgephoto Senior Member

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    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    Stafford, CT
    Scrap it? If you can get it home part it out if it is not worth fixing.
     
  8. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,319
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Fir parts available
    Durability
    Dependability and ease of use

    Stick with newer Case or Deere or Cat equipment
    Yes CNH can still get some parts for the old Fords but dwindling with time
    JCB has a bad name for availability for repair parts that are strictly proprietary.

    A 580E or K series will last longer and cost a little more but parts are on the shelf not special order or something that has to be reengineered to function
     
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  9. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

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    Dec 27, 2020
    Messages:
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    Location:
    15020
    Ya the free 580b got away. The seller of the 580b on marketplace is sounding fishy. Saying the power steering is weak because of a swing cylinder leak. That ones out. Ive got two ford 4500s to look at, including the one at bakers again. The hood in the bucket had been mentioned, but the battery looks to be brand new, so if that hood pops off easily, i can see that. The other 4500 works every day. Ill be looking at both tomorow. Seems llike the old fords are the most common here in southwest pa of the older machines. There are probably a dozen of the old n series within 100 miles on marketplace. A kubota b9200 came up on craigslist, but i dont think thats going to do well with my stumps. The smallest is about 2 feet across and the big douglas fur has two trunks totalling about 6 feet across.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  10. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    6,182
    Location:
    On A Riverbank in IL. USA
    You could cause a lot of damage to any T/L/B tackling a 6 foot tree stump.
    I doubt if one could do one that big.
    You cannot remove a stump until the entire root ball is loose.
    Unless the tree was cut about 10 years ago.
     
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  11. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Saw a local wresting a 40" Oak Stump with a Link Belt 2650 mid 80s vintage that worked that machine near to death. Ended up building a brush burn pile in the hole around the stump to destroy enough to remove.
     
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  12. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

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    Location:
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    I had a pine stump i dug out with a mini excavator. I think it was a bobcat 231, 12000lb machine. The tree had 83 rings and was about 3ft across. It got the stump out of the hole and up onto the backfill blade suprisingly. I drug it 100 yards leaned over onto the stump with just the ends of the tracks touching. I dont even think i could drag that out with my pickup on a chain, let alone an 1800lb tlb. Ive really given thought to a new deere 1 or 3 series, itll work for alot of what i want to do, except the driveway and some of the bigger stumps.
     
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  13. TomD16

    TomD16 Member

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    Aug 30, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ashburnham, MA
    In 2003 I bought a 1986 Ford 555b 4X4 for $12K. Looked rough but had a replacement engine. Immediately installed new tires and a battery. Over the next 17 years I have spent around $5K in repairs (some pins & bushings, hoses, cylinder repacking, new battery every 7 years,...) and the thing refuses to die. Most of the work I have done myself, but it went out once for a $3K service. Starts in cold weather without ether, strong hydraulics, and when I have run it out of fuel (gauge doesn't work), I just fill the tank and it self primes. It could die tomorrow and it would not hurt. The thing has done more work than I have into it, by far.
     
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  14. NH575E

    NH575E Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Retired Machinist
    Location:
    North, FL
    I wasted a couple hours of rental time on this sweetgum using a E32 Bobcat. Had to leave it as you see it here until I bought my 575E. It got it out with the 575E but it would not pick it up. I had to roll it out of the hole and push it out to the burn pile. sweetgum2.jpg
    So far I have managed to keep my New Holland going but there are parts I would like to have that are listed as no longer available. They use to have a good parts web site but they ruined it. I have had a heck of a time getting correct seal kits for cylinders. They changed the pistons and gland nuts along the way and rather than keep a way to get the original seals they want you to buy the new glands and pistons. Turns a $75 job into a $500 job if you follow their suggestions. So far I have worked around that but it has cost me a lot in time and finagling. Not sure I would buy another New Holland if I was looking but I also don't know if any other brand is better for old machine parts.
     
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  15. TomD16

    TomD16 Member

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    Aug 30, 2017
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    6
    Location:
    Ashburnham, MA
    I have been impressed by what the old triple nickel can pick up. Quite a strong machine. So strong that the rear dipper was repaired by the original owner. Each side has 1/2 inch thick plate welded in place; hasn't broken again. A lot of it has to do with timing. When I was looking in 2003, the prices for 4X4 machines was a little high. Like land. This thing looked rough, but for $12K I took a gamble, and it has paid off. Dozers are the same way; sometimes junk is commanding a $10K price, sometimes you can get a decent machine for even less. My next machine will probably be a JD 310 or 410. Looking to buy before I retire in the next couple of years.
     
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  16. edgephoto

    edgephoto Senior Member

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    Stafford, CT
    I bought a CAT 426 that needs some work. I knew it when I bought it. Paid about 40% of going rate for similar machines. I have bought a lot of parts and checked on many parts. Other than body parts everything is still available from CAT. I have not waited more than 4-5 days for any part.

    My machine is 1988-1989 vintage. I commented to the CAT parts guys how shocked I am about parts availability. They commented that CAT can supply most parts for machines back to the 30s. I work for a major car manufacturer and we supply virtually nothing for 30 year old vehicles. I would buy CAT again just for the convenience of buying parts. No having to make something work.
     
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  17. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Mount Tabor VT
    DO NOT BUY A FARM TRACTOR EQUIPPED WITH A BACKHOE!
    Old TLB machines are troublesome. I've owned four thus far. Each has been a real education. I wish I had it to do over again & bought one late model unit. I seem to own them long enough to spend some money, work the bugs out.
    You'll spend a great deal on a $5000. TLB.
    My son bought a Case 580B. Except for a tire that keeps going flat, & some cylinders needed repacking, it is functional. He paid $2000. I am not a fan of foot swing / three lever control.

    I have had two Case 580K, parts availability has been fine. I can't say that about John Deere. Some John Deere parts have been NLA. The six section backhoe valve on a 410, no parts were offered. A whole valve was $4500. A hydraulic repair company sold me an aftermarket valve for $1400. It was narrower than stock. I had to build the hardware to mount on the tractor & the joystick assembly.
     
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  18. TomD16

    TomD16 Member

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    Aug 30, 2017
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    6
    Location:
    Ashburnham, MA
    Had a pleasant surprise when i bought a 1966 Case 310 dozer two years ago. Anytime I get a vehicle I always change all the fluids and filters to get a baseline. Went to a farm dealership over the line in New Hampshire and they had everything in stock I needed. For a 50 + year old machine!
     
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  19. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    6,719
    Location:
    WI
    filters are a little different, because in those days there were 3 filters available,and you designed your machine with those three filters in mind. so those three filters cover 90% of the engines made between 1940 and 1980. I've never had trouble finding filters for anything if you're willing to cross numbers and keep looking. Just the price, or having to buy more than one sometimes.

    What gets you in trouble is a third party component that JD doesn't support anymore like Willies, or an oddball machine bigger component that is not available new, and not any others around in scrapyards here, and it's not going to be sent used from overseas.
     
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  20. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

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    Dec 27, 2020
    Messages:
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    Location:
    15020
    I just looked at the 580b. Put it into a gravel pile after warming up and it digs in abit then just sits there in 1st gear. The ps pump was low so topping that off got steering back. The other issue is that thehoe wont perform much more than one function at a time. Im going to look at the ford, i dont think the case is the one.
     
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