1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Local contractors out of hand

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by DMiller, May 15, 2019.

  1. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,193
    Location:
    indiana
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    DMiller likes this.
  2. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    556
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    After reading through all of these posts, I did a bunch more research on the whole CDL requirements and will be going tomorrow to start the application. I had my CDL at TxDOT with government exemption for medi card and dropped it when I left thinking I wouldn't need it any more and didn't want the headaches of possible points on my license and the medical test mess. I moved into a 4500 Kodiak for my service truck soon after and thought nothing of needing a CDL as it was nowhere near 26k. I just recently moved into a fully insured '06 4300 International registered right at 26k without my name on the sides. I had seen many big service trucks for sale that a selling point was no CDL required which reinforced my thinking. What is up with that? Only outside the Texas DMV site do I find any requirement for CDL for commercial vehicles under 26k and even then it is clear as mud to me. I had been driving heavy haul at TxDOT so skill isn't an issue but for those of us that do try to stay legal, all of the hoops one has to jump through can confusing and daunting.
    For those of us here in Texas, do I have to have a medi card before I start the application of can I get it while applying?
     
    DMiller likes this.
  3. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    Get the medical card done now that way it is all on file with the state at the same time.
     
    DMiller and Wytruckwrench like this.
  4. Bumpsteer

    Bumpsteer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    638
    Occupation:
    Mechanical designer
    Location:
    mid Michigan
    Just now thought of a long passed local contractor....'ol Charlie had a single axle dump and an ancient Case CK backhoe, thats it, no trailer, they were to much trouble.

    When it was time to move, Charlie got on the backhoe, raised the boom and dumped the bucket.
    Set the bucket in the dump bed so it hooked the tailgate and lift until the front tires of the hoe were off the ground.
    Put the hoe in neutral and drag it down the road........lmao.

    Ed
     
    mikebramel and DMiller like this.
  5. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,193
    Location:
    indiana
    As Lucas McCain would say …." You overplayed your hand " .:)

    [​IMG]


    Better call Mister Whipple for that job .





    And don't squeeze the Charmin ! LOL :D
     
    DMiller and Truck Shop like this.
  6. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    556
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    As I don't want to hijack the thread, tell me if I need to start a new thread. This might help some getting into this line of work.

    I went to the DMV today and asked to start the application and was told the medi card had to be on file before starting.

    We then discussed what I was going to apply for and that is where it went fuzzy again. When I told her my truck was under 26,001 but used for commercial gain, and not a passenger vehicle, she informed me I didn't need a CDL unless I put a trailer behind it (no intention) and become a Class A. I'm more confused now than I had been. Her coworker said it depended on GVW to which I replied it doesn't have a rating sticker on it (nowhere). It was sold as an unfinished cab and chassis and what I've understood, that would be determined by the end user. My registration office had no info on its factory GVW and allowed me to rate it as I wanted. Fully rigged is around 22k. Would a certified weigh ticket be of benefit?
     
  7. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,747
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    I don't know if the rules and regs are the same but when I decided to upgrade, I decided to go whole hog and get all the licenses I could get. I even took the bus test, unfortunately when I got to the drive test with a class A rig they said since it wasn't a bus my bus license would not stand. OK whatever, I didn't plan to drive a bus anyway, I just thought it was just a test. I got doubles and triples endorsement which I have never used.

    It sure makes jumping into a job should the opportunity present itself easier, and my wife is happy I go to the doctor every other year anyhow.
     
    DMiller and Truck Shop like this.
  8. AzIron

    AzIron Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    Az
    As far as I know federally 26000lbs and under non cdl if you are any type of configuration with a trailer and that trailer exceeds 10000lbs class a cdl required even if your under 26000lbs

    If your on commercial tags anything over 10000 lbs gvw requires a med card and a log book regs apply also as well as required dot number

    All this is depending on the officer that pulls you over understands the law themself and its plenty sticky

    If you really stop and think about the vast majority of pickups pulling gooseneck trailers and probably dump trailers are not in compliance to standing laws but that sure not going to stop the stupid or blissfully ignorant ones
     
    DMiller and Truck Shop like this.
  9. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    If you want the regulations for a CDL in your state go to a DOT office and talk to a weigh master or DOT officer.
     
    colson04 and DMiller like this.
  10. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    The medical exam requires the doc's office to sign up and my reg GP didnt want to do all that, thus we have to make an appointment at an 'industrial medical' where pre-employment physicals as well as drug testing are the main line of business. Previously when the doc did the exam, one could also have some blood work done at a lab. The DMV physical when compared to what the regular MD would prefer: the other one is a few less attributes. It is better than no exam, maybe reminds me a little like the physicals in the military. Not quite their famous kick and a count LOL.
    No more card in the wallet as they said too many frauds - this new system is direct reporting from the doc to the computer the DOT uses.
    ~
    Eyeglass? could be another step in the process. That may or may not need to be done by an opto/optha if the little picture on the wall was hard to read using the basic 'cover one eye' test.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    I am thinking the dual wheel pickup folks I am familiar imagine all these steps as impossible to accomplish, so when they decide to drive around with their trailer they do a lot of hoping (and perhaps praying) the shiny black and white pickup doesn't cast an eye their way. But they admit they have seen a few trucks similarly equipped on the roadside with a DOT, and they had convinced themselves maybe the other guy was speeding (we in California are not allowed over 55 w a trailer).
    <<<<<<<<<<<
    At the electrical supply house where they operate about 6 or 8 trucks with vs flatbeds [all under 26k gvwr but over the 10k gvwr], they indicated the company has been bringing all their trucks to an inspection mechanic every 90 days for about the last three or so years.
    There I was, just learning about this at a seminar - about a couple years after the rule went into effect - and the supply house had already been doing this. Makes me feel like this is an oldie thread from that standpoint. Sorry to bring up old news but it looks like the only folks w/o a visit w these rules are those with a OEM pickup bed (no utility bodies or flat beds), a gvwr less than 10k (likely a 3/4 ton and not a duallie), if a trailer then it and its load must be less than 10k - and hauling their own property, not others.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  11. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,747
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    Bob, where do you find the part about the pickup GVW being under 10k?
     
    DMiller likes this.
  12. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,298
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    My 1999 F250 SD diesel is rated at 8,500 IIRC, but add a trailer and that jumps to 14,500.
     
  13. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,479
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN

    That 4300 only has a gross vehicle weight of 26,000? It does not matter what weight it is licensed at for CDL requirements. They go by the manufactures gross vehicle weight rating, or what it could be licensed for. If it is 33,000 GVW vehicle and licensed for only 26,000 you are still in violation without a proper CDL.
     
    DMiller and Truck Shop like this.
  14. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    Today while filling my pickup at PacPride a BIG NOSED Chevy Quad cab pickup pulls into the next island with a standard hitch two axle trailer and a case ih tractor with loader and a huge
    mower deck. Trailer and tractor about 16,000 lbs. 3/4 ton truck. I was figuring a BIG NOSED FORD would pull in next. They try there damnedest to make those pickups look bigger than
    they really are.
     
  15. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,193
    Location:
    indiana
    I picked up on that as well Truck Shop .

    Almost like changing the body style will defy physics .

    My Grandad had a saying years ago ….. " A one ton truck is to big to run around in and to small to haul with " .

    Now his statement was dated back in the 1970's but I still agree with it for the most part . :)
     
    DMiller and old-iron-habit like this.
  16. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,479
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN
    The DOT is again having their spring payday with all the weekenders headed up north to the cabins and the lakes. Many of them drive company pickups or have trailers with the company logos on them. It is amazing how many of them think they can get by with more than .02 alcohol in their system. The DOT attitude is if it has a company logo and moving the vehicle or trailer is at work. One beer and they are over the DOT limit. On opening weekend of fishing season the local county lockup could not hold them all for the mandatory 8 hours before they could bail out. They got as many as 20 some days. Friday evening they had 7 DOT vans and a county deputy. They stacked them into the local hockey arena parking lot for inspections. The wreckers are having a field day hauling them off because they seldom have a correctly licensed driver to take over. One of the officers was quoted to have said, "The days of writing off your personal vehicle as a company ride is over." I think word is spreading fast although they did it last year also. Short memories or slow learners?
     
    DMiller, Truck Shop and td25c like this.
  17. oceanobob

    oceanobob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    622
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    oceano california
    Birken: the pickup 'under 10k gvw' was the concept defacto promulgated by the CHP at the seminar. Because if it is other than a pickup, ergo utility body or flatbed etc, regardless of the GVWR it is subject to The Rules. Commercial Vehicle Rules, that is.

    After the seminar we did a lot of door sticker searching and the typical 3/4 ton late model diesel pickup was at or under the 10k number and duallie pickups were well over that: in the 11k plus range.

    Then we looked at this document from the California government called the Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures Manual (you can get there by way of the DMV website). There are 30 chapters and some appendix but the chapter 13 is titled Commercial Vehicles Industry Registration Procedures and section 13.065 calls out:

    Motor Trucks with two or more axles and a .... GVWR of more than 10k pounds .... are req'd tp obtain a motor carrier permit. **
    Motor carriers do not include:

    • Pickup Trucks
    etc

    Earlier in that chapter 13 section is the definition of a pickup truck. It defines what is not a pickup: although while it may indeed have the open type bed, it cant weight more than 8k nor have a GVWR over 11.5k GVWR. This definition is actually written in there twice: once what IS and once what IS NOT.

    Here is a nice question: If the duallie pickup has a a gvwr of 11.2k GVWR such as my friend's 2wd dodge Cummin second generation, is he free of The Rule? The seminar only mentioned 10k GVWR not 11.5K GVWR as per the Chapter 13.

    ** Keep in mind the Motor Carrier Permit is the gateway to the BIT program, the fees are paid at the same time.

    ``
    For more confusion, back to the seminar: the Instructor said the CHP simply would not be counting pickup trucks BUT if the pickup had any type of trailer on it, then it would be an element or candidate for roadside inspection to verify compliance with these Safety Rules.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This probably made it worse but if one goes accordingly of the seminar and the chapter 13 summary rules for the motor carrier, the seemingly safe number is 10k GVWR. But maybe if it was a pickup bed on a pickup truck that was 11.5k GVWR, perhaps the definition from the Chapter 13 would allow it w/o the MCP?
    ~~~~~~~~~
    A look at the CHP website continues to reflect the BIT program from 2016 and at the seminar that title was specifically revised to 'Carrier Inspection Fee'.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    This article from Western States Trucking Association shows the 10k GVWR number
    https://westrk.org/basic-inspection-of-terminal-bit-program-update/
     
    DMiller likes this.
  18. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    I think the confusion is wrapped in a base GVW, pickup or not. The minute you hitch a 16,000 lb loaded trailer behind it that's when it all changes. I remember when
    magnetic signs came out back in the 70's, became popular for using as tax write off. DOT put a stop to that.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  19. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,298
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    In MO the DOT stopped the use of Magnetic signage on any considered commercial truck, the lettering requirement is either painted or adhesive applied and certain size lettering now.
     
  20. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,182
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    It took me some time but I found the Washington State regulations concerning CDL requirements. All the state's regulations can be found on this site;

    https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/publications/manuals/fulltext/M30-39/CVG.pdf

    1. To see if you need a Commercial Driver’s License, follow the shaded area in the chart:
    Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your trailer 10,001 pounds or more? YES,
    and Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your combination 26,001 pounds or more?
    If so, You need a CDL Class A license

    Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your single vehicle 26,001 pounds or more (includes all buses)? YES, then You need a CDL Class B license

    Is your vehicle designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver? YES, then You need a CDL Class C license

    Is your vehicle a public school bus with a GVWR or registered weightunder 26,001 pounds, regardless of passenger capacity? YES, then You need a CDL Class C license

    Does your vehicle under 26,001 pounds carry placarded hazardous materials? YES, then
    You need a CDL Class C license

    If the vehicle you are driving DOES NOT meet any of the above conditions THEN You DO NOT need a CDL license

    Website: www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdl.html