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Local contractors out of hand

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by DMiller, May 15, 2019.

  1. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    So you are saying I should feel free to drive past a stopped school while downing a pint of JD and texting and as long as I don't kill any kids no one should be upset or call the cops one me? Cops should wait till the kid is under my front tires before hassling me?
     
  2. ianjoub

    ianjoub Senior Member

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    Yes then you can do 20+ years in prison for aggravated battery or negligent homicide. At that point you HAVE committed a crime.

    I am sick and tired of the nanny state. Some people are better drivers after a beer than others are perfectly sober. Some people can drive responsibly with a slightly overloaded vehicle while others are more dangerous with a 'legal' one.

    Punish the crime, not the possibilities!
     
  3. donkey doctor

    donkey doctor Senior Member

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    So no stop signs or traffic lights. No speed limits and you can drive either way on either side of the road or on a one way street or even on the sidewalk or for that matter walk in the middle of the freeway. I thought the rules were in place to help prevent chaos in a society. Silly me. d.d.
     
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  4. ianjoub

    ianjoub Senior Member

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    Rules of the road are fine. We all need to know what we are supposed to do. How they are enforced is where I have issues.


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  5. donkey doctor

    donkey doctor Senior Member

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    Fair point. I've been many times to a lot of places where they have traffic like that. India Vietnam Cambodia Indonesia China to name a few. It quite amazing the way the traffic just flows around each other. I guess it mostly comes down to having a little respect for other road users and it not being just about me, me/ me. Unfortunately I don't think North american people are polite enough to each other to be able to function in that kind of a system. I think we (myself included) would end up road kill quick smart. Regards d.d.
     
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  6. ianjoub

    ianjoub Senior Member

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    I agree. We need roundabouts.
     
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  7. donkey doctor

    donkey doctor Senior Member

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    We have one in my little town. Best thing since sliced bread. Regards d.d.
     
  8. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

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    We have laws because people cannot police them selves, give an inch take a mile. Laws are passed in most cases for a very good reason. But the main problem with this
    latest discussion is that a drivers licence is a privilege not a right no mater what state you live in. If rules of the road are broken you suffer the consequences. I follow the
    rules and law enforcement doesn't bother me. It's like taking a pee test, if your not a drug user you have nothing to worry about. With as many people as there are on our
    highways at any given second-Crap or Sh!t is happening as I write this x amount of injury an fatal wrecks are in progress. And out of those 50 plus percent couldn't pass
    a blood test. Out of those are victims who were headed home to their families and they are not going home tonight because of some selfish son of a b!tch that couldn't
    abide the law. Because of his me me me attitude. My favorite thing I say to to myself when I see selfish a$$ holes on the road {excuse the rest of us for driving on your
    highway}.

    I operated a tow truck years ago and I still do for the company I work for. I got out of bed at midnight too many times to go clean up a fatality [ alcohol/drug related
    or not} I have always found it easy for others to gripe about things they have never seen. Well here's one for you.

    I got a call at 1:00 a.m. on a Tuesday morning in 1988 { dates like this you don't forget}. I arrived to a fatality one car involved accident. One of the most grizzly things a person
    could ever witness. A sedan on the side of I-90 with a women setting in the drivers seat dead, impaled by a 1 1/2" diameter steel pipe right through the bottom of the car and
    through the seat. The pipe was protruding from her neck. The WSP put out a stop every scrap truck headed to Fife bulletin. WSP had found eastward on I-90 other debris they
    believed fell off a scrap hauler. Insecure load cost that woman her life, her husband and children lost a wife and mother because of careless selfish behavior of another.
     
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  9. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    So let me get this straight. As long as when I speed past the stopped school bus drunk just as kids are getting off I miss him and his little sister by six inches you are fine with that? And you feel the bus driver reporting it to the police to get me arrested is an intrusion on my freedom by "the nanny state"? No one got hurt so who gives a sh!t?
     
  10. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Seems some here think that it is just fine to shoot down a freeway with crap falling on the road. The next car coming along should be paying attention and not get hit by the scrap?

    I could not bring my self to click on "Like" for that post of yours. I can not imagine how I would be able to handle a sight like that.
     
  11. ianjoub

    ianjoub Senior Member

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    Reckless endangerment comes to mind.

    I am just trying to relay my view that personal responsibility will always work better than the nanny state route. Pulling out a worst case scenario is a cop out. It is like saying no one should be able to drive cars because one person was irresponsible with one. If no one driving would save just one child's life...
     
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  12. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    I get what ianjoub is saying .

    Plenty of laws on the books to cover any situation . No need for any more .

    Enforce existing laws .

    I keep telling Andy we need to go after those " Truckers " exceeding the speed limit before Turner's Grade …..

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  13. check

    check Senior Member

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    Freedom isn't free. If you haven't violated anyone's Constitutional rights, you have committed no crime. This is how our Founding Fathers thought.
    I think the price of liberty is worth paying. The other road leads to tyranny.
     
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  14. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

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    Bowing out this is turning political and it is not about politics. And a reminder for those who want to turn it political-politics and religion are not allowed on HEF.
     
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  15. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I agree and this is a long the line of what I was talking about fines are reactionary and do not completely solve the problem. Sure fines usually solve the issue with the individual receiving them but word of mouth only goes so far.

    My point is fines and regulations only do so much to change human behavior.

    Take for instance OSHA regulations. Sure OSHA writes millions in fines every year however I think the construction industry itself has done way more to improve job site safety on its own, not necessarily in reaction to not wanting to get fines.

    In the commercial market we have an up to date safety policy, MSDS and various safety training certifications from trenching/excavating through OSHA 30. We didn't go through all of this because we were afraid of an OSHA violation, rather these are basic requirements to work in the market segment.

    I can say it has made us a better, safer company. It starts with a government regulation but successful implementation is not achieved through fines and punishment alone.


    So far this is a good conversation about personal responsibility vs government regulation that has not crossed the political/religious line yet..
     
  16. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    Seems like the rules up here make a little more sense. To me they do anyways.
     
  17. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    I got dismissed from a potential jury for espousing what you have said here. Not a popular opinion but necessary nonetheless. The alternative is creeping tyranny. There needs to be some form of injury before a person is deprived of life, liberty or property. Malum prohibitum vs malum in se and all that.

    Law needs to be made simple instead of this convoluted mess we have now, which does not work.
     
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  18. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Let's take this a little different direction. Last week or so NASA published that they lost some space craft because a supplier deliberately used defective material for a component of the craft. Is that a civil infraction of a criminal infraction. What is the difference between that and Joe Blow driving down the road in an overloaded and structurally deficient truck and trailer? Is that a civil or a criminal infraction?
     
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  19. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    To me the current DOT driving rules are ridiculous. The way it is set up if you have a multiple day run and want to drive the maximum time allowed you are constantly forcing your body to adjust from day to night. You body adjusts to a routine, why not use it. I have always said that just e-file your 12 hours out of the day that you want to drive and that is your schedule. Simple and I think much safer. If you are a night person go that route, if day or evening go that way. No driver logs would be needed.
     
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  20. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    Both. It would be civil to the company and it would be a criminal charge to the person whom was responsible for passing on the "KNOWN" deficiency. I know of two cases, both widely publicized, a couple years apart, by the safety department of the company I retired from. In one case a superintendent told the crew to get the pipe in and then was in the trench himself with no shoring multiple times before it collapsed killing one of his crew. In the other case a iron worker boss repeatedly walked out on the structural steel with out utilizing's 100% tie off as required. One of his workers died in a fall. Both crew bosses had been trained by the companies in the safety requirements. In both cases the company was found civilly liable and the person in charge whom voluntarily did not enforce the safety rules was found criminally liable. Both these cases resulted in five year jail sentences. A unsafe truck can lead to criminal charges to the driver and civil charges to the owner if that vehicle injured or killed another person.
     
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