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Livestock dugout cleanout question.

Discussion in 'General Industry Questions' started by cheddarbob56, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Guys - have a question here that may sound stupid to some but we are pretty new in excavating compared to a lot of guys on here so that's why I'm asking for your expertise :). We mostly do demo/tree removal and such but since we are very dry in our area we've had a lot of calls for livestock dugout cleanouts. The problem is most when they were dug the dirt was placed basically next to the dugout on both sides leaving not really any room for my excavator to sit along side. We are going to rent a 60' long reach later this summer to be able to reach them but how do you guys that do this every day do it? Do you come in first and move the existing dirt piles away far enough or if the piles aren't to big to you park up top? I attached a picture of what I'm talking about. The one in the picture has a nice level landing on both sides but most I'm seeing the dirt pile is close enough to the sides you can't get in there. What do you guys do? Thanks.
    Chris

    Dugout%203.jpg
     
  2. Red Roan

    Red Roan Active Member

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    Hey Chris, A picture is great, but still leads me to some questions.

    Is the standing water 6" deep or 3' deep? does it have any type of a hard bottom to it? What is the depth of the muck you anticipate getting out of there?

    Just off the top of my head, I'd dig a sump hole in the corner, stick in a section of slotted pipe with stone around it, and providing you had some type of fall, pump the water out of your excavation. If you are truly in a dry spell, let it sit for a couple weeks and come back in and push it out with either a D5LGP, or depending on the size a D6LGP. Providing it has a fairly hard bottom under it.

    Or after dewatering, just muck it out with a hoe, and cast it aside. A long reach is ideal, like you said. But not everyone has one sitting around. Around here , you'll only see long reaches at the larger rental yards.

    Or, if there's just a few inches of water in there, do it with your hoe as is, but I'd have a D6 or a 963 to flatten out those piles. And, I'd have my support machine grade off those piles. Even if it's in the middle of nowhere, I' never just leave dirt piled up, I'd at least shape it to drain for the next guy.

    I'm sure you could perhaps do it with smaller equipment than I mentioned, but I approach it from the way I'd do it, most of the jobs I bid, I have just about any machine I could wish for at my disposal.
     
  3. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. The picture was just an example of one I found on the internet. Most of the ones that I've been getting calls for are dry or basically dry... I'd say less than 12" of water. However a lot of them are silted in so there's not much of a solid bottom at all. Most of the ones I've been called about have the dirt cast from digging it on both sides leaving not so nice of a place to sit so that's why I was asking if I need to figure in my bid time to move the dirt enough to give me a flat spot to sit.
     
  4. Red Roan

    Red Roan Active Member

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    yes, I would give yourself some additional time to flatten out those spoil piles.

    depending on how dry they really are, you could do the whole job with just a blade, or just a hoe.

    personally, I'd bid it with two machines, figuring one of them's gonna get stuck at some point in time:)
     
  5. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . .
    untitled.png scoop.png

    Have I mentioned these?

    Cheers.
     
  6. backhoe1

    backhoe1 Well-Known Member

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    Most have dirt on 2 ends. Work from the sides as far as you can reach. I never go in a dugout, because generally you'll sink out of site. The most important thing to remember is to manage your spoils. Water and mud running back at you can fill your tracks quickly and cause major headaches.
     
  7. dayexco

    dayexco Senior Member

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  8. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean there..... we did clean one out last fall that on the top "looked dry" but once you started digging it was like chocolate pudding... sludgy gooey muck. That one we didn't have to move much dirt along the sides because another guy had been hauling the old dirt away for building up a feedlot. Thanks for the advice.
    Chris
     
  9. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    WOW dayexco - that looks like it was a huge mess..... how many hours did it take to get that thing out? That's one of my worst nightmares :S hope it never happens to me.
     
  10. Oxbow

    Oxbow Senior Member

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    If you are going to get a long reach, depending on the size of the pond, you may be able to flat top the existing spoil piles with a touch of slope away from the pond and then sit on top of the piles and be able to cast your spoils on the outside of the pile you are sitting on. This will keep the excess moisture from running back toward you and provide you a nice dry platform to work off of. With a conventional hoe you will not have enough reach to go about it in this manner and will have to move the existing spoils first. It still would not hurt to slope your working area slightly away from the pond though to help prevent what dayexco encountered.
     
  11. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm hoping to do is be able to sit on top of the piles if they aren't to big... sloping away is also a good idea. Thanks for everyone's input.

    Chris
     
  12. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . As I have said before, a little hole such as shown in cheddarbob56'scould be cleaned out in a day with a 50hp wheel tractor and a pickup.

    Cheers.
     
  13. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    That was just an example of the spoil piles on the sides so everyone knew what I was talking about. One we did last fall with our Cat 235 we had 29 hours of digging in... It was big and deep so I don't think a 50 hp tractor and that pull along thing would work very well in something big :) I'd probably be there 2 months :)
     
  14. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . cheddarbob56.

    Mate, if this website will open for you there is a little embedded video on there that shows one of those "pull along things" working . . . this is just one style of scoop.

    These days there are only a few manufacturers build them and they all make them a little different . . . some make back to back units than can work both ways

    http://www.starkeng.com.au/scales.php

    Bear in mind that they are built in sizes up to about 15 cubic meters which can stop a D8h if set up with too much bite.

    They work very well and I have taken out twelve feet of more of silt out of tanks with a D4 and a Fordson pulling back.

    The idea is you cut a slot through the middle and the mud keeps flowing to the scoop. As you can see you need to build a bank or a pound to control the slop. Back in the "old days" mud pounds were part of earth tank construction as desilting was a regular maintenance program on the stations (ranches)

    Even over here this old technology was being lost as the young blokes reckon they know better and put loaders, dozers and track hoes where they should never be . . . it is changing though and I believe the technology is undergoing something of a revival.

    I recently saw a photo of five machines stuck in a twenty five thousand yard tank somewhere in the Territory . . . . and then they got a four inch storm and the gear is still there because the roads shut down for the season and there is no way to get any more machinery in there.

    I can tell you that the old bloke I was working for made his living out of cleaning out dams and he got very cranky if we got mud on his precious D4.

    Just posting this again as some folks may find it of interest.

    I think I have posted on another thread on dam cleaning an old B/W photo of pulling back with a horse team.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  15. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

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    Humm I think the ticket would be 2 winch tractors and one of scrub's silt scoops. I guess you wouldn't even need winch tractors, just a bit of cable and some decent 4x4 farm tractors. As for the dry material, a d-6 would make quick work of a pile like that.
     
  16. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Scrub - I get how that thing works now. Pretty neat. I can see how that would work well if you have dirt piles on both sides limiting access to an excavator. Thanks for the history lesson :) It's amazing some of the stuff the guys did "back in the day" with the equipment they had.
     
  17. jaclo

    jaclo Well-Known Member

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    Stay away from the long reach, there just isnt enough capacity in the bucket to make a big difference. Stick with your standard 320cat or what have you excavator, you'll get it cleaned out enough to make the rancher happy. If you need to track into the pond a bit to reach the middle its really no big deal, make sure you throw it back away as far as you can. Works pretty good in these dry times we are in. I've cleaned out little deals like that several times. It's no big deal.
     
  18. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . jaclo

    I think mate that when that "several times" becomes a few hundred times in different kinds of country you won't be so inclined to be so cocky.

    In your neck of the woods it may be safe to track out into the water but, in a lot of places it is best not to learn the hard way. (big grin)

    Cheers.
     
  19. jaclo

    jaclo Well-Known Member

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    I based most of my opinion off of the fact that I am probably about 200 miles from this guy, so I would like to think I do know what I'm talking about.
     
  20. cheddarbob56

    cheddarbob56 Well-Known Member

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    One thing I was wondering was how much slower the long reach would be. My old CAT 235 has a nice big bucket and can really sling some dirt if I can reach into it. I suppose it would be possible to sling the most of it out I could with my 235 and then bring the long reach in as a clean up effort to get the centers if I can't reach all the way with my 235.